Company owned boats

[Whitelighter]

Why do we get ourselves in knots over vat on boats?

Same is true with cars - many costing much more to buy than boats.
Do we drive into the continent with a trail of invoices showing vat was paid?

 

[lw395]

You would not need this. Of course it is nice, and highly recommended, for buyer to get a vat invoice in this situation, but if not buyer still doesn't owe the VAT money to HMRC.

When you buy a sofa for £1200 on the high street you don't have a care in the world about whether the sofa shop gives the £200 VAT to HMRC or runs off with it. HMRC will/can never come after you for that £200 (or £200,000; the amount is irrelevant)

Ther seller is liable, not the buyer. I agree it gets messy, so get the correct paperwork, but you were not "just" saying it gets messy - you were saying the buyer might be liable to pay the VAT, which is what I am correcting

The significant difference between a sofa and a seagoing vessel, apart from the scale of cost, is that one of them passes in and out of territorial waters with ease.
It's easy for any member of the public to buy a VAT-unpaid boat is say Jersey and bring it into EU waters. If you do that, the buyer is liable for VAT and other grief.
That is why owners need evidence that their boat is EU goods with any appropiate VAT etc paid.

 

[Portofino]

Why do we get ourselves in knots over vat on boats?

Same is true with cars - many costing much more to buy than boats.
Do we drive into the continent with a trail of invoices showing vat was paid?

Yeh but so what ........Agree it’s a Brit thingy perpetrated on forums and the RYA .
Somebody buys a boat from Sunseeker follows the forums well trodden Internet path of obtaining a manufactures paid vat invoice .
One month later slight change of plans opts into the charter game and sets up a Co in his own name ( he’s holding one of many directorships one in this Co ) and claims the VAT back .

Some years later it’s time to sell it .
He’s got the original VAT invoice .
Plus ( ain’t gonna show or buyer asked for ) his VAT reclaimed paperwork .

Boats presented , cleansed of any evidence it’s ever was a charter boat , perhaps with a few name changes tossed in .
Owner just comes across at the viewing as a conscientious guy with a lot of in date safety gear .

Oh and a silly bit of paper folks hang there hat on the original B O S . You asked for sight of this early in a email exchange prior to the hundreds of miles round trip to view , because you saw thats what you thought you suppose to do before setting off on this forum .

 

[stelican]

Yeh but so what ........Agree it’s a Brit thingy perpetrated on forums and the RYA .
Somebody buys a boat from Sunseeker follows the forums well trodden Internet path of obtaining a manufactures paid vat invoice .
One month later slight change of plans opts into the charter game and sets up a Co in his own name ( he’s holding one of many directorships one in this Co ) and claims the VAT back .

Some years later it’s time to sell it .
He’s got the original VAT invoice .
Plus ( ain’t gonna show or buyer asked for ) his VAT reclaimed paperwork .

Boats presented , cleansed of any evidence it’s ever was a charter boat , perhaps with a few name changes tossed in .
Owner just comes across at the viewing as a conscientious guy with a lot of in date safety gear .

Oh and a silly bit of paper folks hang there hat on the original B O S . You asked for sight of this early in a email exchange prior to the hundreds of miles round trip to view , because you saw thats what you thought you suppose to do before setting off on this forum .

But in that instance the boat was originally invoiced to an individual who would not be Vat registered so i don't see how the company could subsequently reclaim the Vat as the invoice was not to their name.

 

[Portofino]

But in that instance the boat was originally invoiced to an individual who would not be Vat registered so i don't see how the company could subsequently reclaim the Vat as the invoice was not to their name.

He sells it to his own Co .

To unravel this , it needs a marine conveyor acting for the buyer to ask the relevant questions .
“ Has it ever been owned by a Co ? “
But even then the person turning up doing the viewings might not be the owner and honestly be unaware , as he only has been provided with the BOS or copy , the same bit of paper earlier emailed to the prospect .

“ Johns had it since new as far as I,am aware “ says the innocently acting agent for “ John “

 

[petem]

Yeh but so what ........Agree it’s a Brit thingy perpetrated on forums and the RYA .
Somebody buys a boat from Sunseeker follows the forums well trodden Internet path of obtaining a manufactures paid vat invoice .
One month later slight change of plans opts into the charter game and sets up a Co in his own name ( he’s holding one of many directorships one in this Co ) and claims the VAT back .

Some years later it’s time to sell it .
He’s got the original VAT invoice .
Plus ( ain’t gonna show or buyer asked for ) his VAT reclaimed paperwork .

Boats presented , cleansed of any evidence it’s ever was a charter boat , perhaps with a few name changes tossed in .
Owner just comes across at the viewing as a conscientious guy with a lot of in date safety gear .

Oh and a silly bit of paper folks hang there hat on the original B O S . You asked for sight of this early in a email exchange prior to the hundreds of miles round trip to view , because you saw thats what you thought you suppose to do before setting off on this forum .

So, for a 5 year old boat you don't consider the original BOS to be important?

 

[Portofino]

So, for a 5 year old boat you don't consider the original BOS to be important?

What does it prove ? Builder in my illustration- Sunseeker one assumes at some time accounted for the VAT in the normal way dong there timely VAT return ...err first time it was sold ........from then on proves nothing .

As said in the 5 years of its life who knows where it’s been and back so to speak by the bloke named on the BOS .

How about this one Pete ...... you attend the hand over from a builder the first Friday afternoon in the month ,get the silly bit of paper called a BOS pro-porting to prove VAT status paid , he goes bust on Monday morning , factory gates locked by the bank ( creditors) . By the last Week the normal VAT return date there’s no staff in and only enough credit in the Co asset base to cover the receiver , VAT man never sees your VAT element so it’s never been paid , was never passed on in full .
Your VAT element .

You are riding round in a boat with this BOS bit of paper , but still the VAT was never paid to HMRC .

The original BOS shows that the buyer handed over a VAT element to the builder on that date .That all .
That’s not the same as proof of VAT paid status 5 years later .

 

[petem]

For a boat less than 7 years old, the original BOS is required for Part 1 registration, it's got nothing to do with VAT.

 

[Croftie]

But in that instance the boat was originally invoiced to an individual who would not be Vat registered so i don't see how the company could subsequently reclaim the Vat as the invoice was not to their name.

I agree with you.
Mr A buys a boat for 100k + VAT = 120k It is now his personal property.
Sells it to his company, as its his personal property and as he is a private individual not personally registered for VAT he cannot charge the buyer (the company) VAT, he can sell for whatever price he wants. He cannot show VAT on the sale invoice therefore the company does not have a VAT invoice he can claim against.

 

[stelican]

Portofino
You say he sells it to his company.
They cannot reclaim the vat in this instance because the owner (who the boat was originally invoiced to) cannot raise a VAT invoice as he is not VAT registered.

 

[lw395]

Sole traders can be VAT registered too!
The whole thing is way more complicated.
VAT and Fraud are often not too far apart.
Reasonable sized boats come under the capital VAT scheme, which I can't claim to understand.
I was forced to understand the rudiments of VAT between UK and other EU countries about 20 years ago, but a lot has changed.

Hence what you need is a T2L, a bit of paper which says HMRC is relatively satisfied your boat is 'EU goods', tax paid, free to circulate without VAT due or other issues.
Personally, for an expensive boat, I'd want the bills of sale from new and evidence that the boat had never been exported, or some other form of re-assurance.
And no differently-faded gelcoat on the transom saying 'Jersey'....

 

[Whitelighter]

Yeh but so what ........Agree it’s a Brit thingy perpetrated on forums and the RYA .
Somebody buys a boat from Sunseeker follows the forums well trodden Internet path of obtaining a manufactures paid vat invoice .
One month later slight change of plans opts into the charter game and sets up a Co in his own name ( he’s holding one of many directorships one in this Co ) and claims the VAT back .

Some years later it’s time to sell it .
He’s got the original VAT invoice .
Plus ( ain’t gonna show or buyer asked for ) his VAT reclaimed paperwork .

Boats presented , cleansed of any evidence it’s ever was a charter boat , perhaps with a few name changes tossed in .
Owner just comes across at the viewing as a conscientious guy with a lot of in date safety gear .

Oh and a silly bit of paper folks hang there hat on the original B O S . You asked for sight of this early in a email exchange prior to the hundreds of miles round trip to view , because you saw thats what you thought you suppose to do before setting off on this forum .

This is rare but....

Totally agree with you.