Commercial endorsement ENG 1 and colour test problems

[andrescel]

Hi there,
I recently passed my yachtmaster offshore exam. My idea was to get now the commercial endorsement. But I went to do the ENG 1 and failed on the colour test. Just for a little bit, but failed. Now I got a ENG 3 so I am not fit for deck work.
My question is if someone in this situation have managed to get the full medical?
I guess, but don't know, I could go to another MCA approved doctor and I'm sure I can pass if I get the book with the plates and practise a bit. Or I could go to one of the CAD test centres and get another test. But as I understand, this test is much harder to pass than the Ishihara one. Also once I have done the CAD one if I don't pass that would be the total end, do no more chances. And I'm not in the UK, so it wouldn't be that easy, doable but expensive.
I can see the colours, no problems at all with nav lights. Is just that I struggle a bit with this Ishihara plates and with some shades of some colours...

Any tips, ideas or experiences?

Thanks a lot and cheers!

 

[capnsensible]

Sadly seen this a few times amongst fast track students. They were never told!

However there is an alternative and I know someone who was successful:

Ishihara plates (numbers built up from coloured dots) are used as the initial test and it is essential to have normal colour vision for unrestricted lookout duties. If fitness for lookout duties is crucial for someone who fails the Ishihara test, the MCA offer a Holmes Wright B Lantern Test in the UK – this lantern test simulates navigation lights in a dark room and is the definitive test. There are less demanding but adequate colour matching tests for occupations needing some colour appreciation such as electricians or engineers.

Well worth going for and good luck!!!

 

[Rocksteadee]

Had an electrician once, completed his apprenticeship and it was not until a bit of kit went bang no one had realised he couldn’t tell between blue and brown.
I believe there is a test which can be done with a red or green filter, don’t know what it will give you though.
To practice see if you can get hold of a colour test book and practice with alternate eyes on the grounds that the brain is looking for confirmation from both eyes. You may find that with just one eye you can see the colours

 

[Elessar]

Sadly seen this a few times amongst fast track students. They were never told!

However there is an alternative and I know someone who was successful:

Ishihara plates (numbers built up from coloured dots) are used as the initial test and it is essential to have normal colour vision for unrestricted lookout duties. If fitness for lookout duties is crucial for someone who fails the Ishihara test, the MCA offer a Holmes Wright B Lantern Test in the UK – this lantern test simulates navigation lights in a dark room and is the definitive test. There are less demanding but adequate colour matching tests for occupations needing some colour appreciation such as electricians or engineers.

Well worth going for and good luck!!!

That would be up for challenge under the DDA. A “reasonable adjustment” would be to use red and green filters at sea.

 

[capnsensible]

That would be up for challenge under the DDA. A “reasonable adjustment” would be to use red and green filters at sea.

You have lost me. Fail the card test, do the lantern test. It's not me, it's what the MCA rules are. As I said I know someone who did it.

 

[andrescel]

Thanks for the answers.
The Holmes Bright test unfortunately is not available any more. Now they do the CAD one, which seems to be much more demanding. That's why I was asking if someone has done it and can tell something about it.
I could also learn to read the plates. But don't know if I can go now just do a new test in another doctor??

 

[andygc]

That would be up for challenge under the DDA. A “reasonable adjustment” would be to use red and green filters at sea.

No. Two reasons.
The DDA has been replaced by the Equality Act 2010.
The statutory guidance "Disability: Equality Act 2010 - Guidance on matters to be taken into account in determining questions relating to the definition of disability" specifically excludes "Simple inability to distinguish between red and green, which is not accompanied by any other effect such as blurring of vision". This was the basis for the judgement in Bessell v The Chief Constable of Dorset Police. That isn't actually a legal precedent because the case did not go any further than the Employment Tribunal, but it was pretty obvious that an appeal would have been pointless.

PS. The CAD is not more difficult than Ishihara, it is just different. As City University (where it was developed) explains, "Its 100% sensitivity allows the CAD test to pick up on very low level colour deficiencies which other tests may pass by unnoticed and means that even if your results show some level of colour deficiency you may still be able to take on jobs where colour sensitivity is vital."

 

[capnsensible]

My information went out of date Jan 2018.

See here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...loads/attachment_data/file/678272/MIN_564.pdf

 

[duncan99210]

It’s not a case of “practising” for a test: the tests are diagnostic and are designed to measure the colour perception of an individual. You don’t pass or fail the test: the person administering the test will give you an objective result. You can distinguish between the all the colours of the visible spectrum or you can’t. It’s not a skill that you can learn.
It’d be dangerous for you to be employed as a watchkeeper on a commercial vessel if you don’t have the range of colour perception required. That’s why the test is included in the medical exam.
I have a good deal of sympathy for the OP, as I’m red/green colour blind. It limited my choices in my army career and I have to be careful at night when spotting other vessels: that often meant summoning the Admiral from her pit to sort out lights. Doesn’t happen as much now we have AIS and radar to help sort things out but my poor colour vision remains a minor problem.

 

[Graham376]

I have sympathy with the OP. In my teens, I failed RAF eye test which ruled out flight crew and electronics ground trades but, always passed the CAA medical O.K. The only problem I'm aware of is between some shades of green and blue which causes arguments when clothes shopping with my wife

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The requirement to pass a colour test is there for safety reasons. If you can't pass it, then you aren't safe as a watch-keeper and shouldn't be one. And I have poor eyesight; I've simply gone through life knowing that some occupations were barred for me. Fortunately, not ones I have been particularly interested in!

It is my understanding that the regulations in this area, although incorporated in British Law and overseen by the MCA, are international in scope, so the MCA has no flexibility about them.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I have to be careful at night when spotting other vessels: that often meant summoning the Admiral from her pit to sort out lights.

This is how we have solved the problem too. I then get the instruction to 'sail between the white and brown lights' and we're OK.

The only problem I'm aware of is between some shades of green and blue which causes arguments when clothes shopping with my wife

Arguments? I've always found it essential to have the Minister of taste with me when I'm shopping for clothes, unless I'm getting white shirts or blue jeans.

 

[Thistle]

Have you tried the CAD test online (as an indicator of possible success rather than as a definitive answer)? See https://www.city.ac.uk/about/school...n-research/a-new-web-based-colour-vision-test

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Have you tried the CAD test online (as an indicator of possible success rather than as a definitive answer)? See https://www.city.ac.uk/about/school...n-research/a-new-web-based-colour-vision-test

That was interesting (I passed!). I would note that a test online like that can't be definitive because few of us have colour-calibrated monitors; I worked in an environment where colour calibration of our monitors and printers was essential to avoid us wasting too much time designing maps and then finding that they looked different when printed! But it's clear that the random variation in the intensity of colour across the coloured square is intended to counter that to some extent. Interestingly, I found that my perception was least good on the brown shades at the end of the video.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

I failed the Ishihara, but passed the Lantern Test at the MCA in So'ton. I had to have an ENG1 for my job on the ferries.
Interesting to hear it's changed. I wonder why?
Make sure you do the Ishihara in daylight, not with the GP's desk lamp after dark.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

Allegedly,,heard it on the grapevine, don't try this at home, etc, but you can get tested for an ENG1 abroad, in nations where the approved docs are more flexible with their schedule of fees...