colregs question

[GHA]

Which actually is very poor seamanship and really just showing off.

Hot shot racing helms get very good at judging distances. Fine on the racecourse. But absolutely guessing how skilled someone is at driving their boat is a tad bonkers.

:encouragement: x lots!

 

[newtothis]

Of course, alternatively he may just have been a prat.

That's pretty much what I assumed, and acted accordingly.

 

[newtothis]

If you had been racing too then the rules would have been different. This suggests to me that he either assumed that you were racing or he didn't know the difference between racing rules and Colregs.

I'm guessing the latter. We were in a blatantly obvious charter tub that couldn't win a bet, far less a race.

 

[newtothis]

Very succinctly put.

So, while it's wonderful for the OP to know that he was right as he understood the situation, it's more useful to think about avoiding conflict in future.

To be fair, I avoided conflict at the time. I luffed up and let him through. I get that I may have been overly sensitive about how close he was and that racers are used to playing dodgems; I've been on the odd race boat start line myself as crew (and bloody hate it).
My original question was about the colregs, which I wasn't sure about. That has now been answered, for which I'm grateful.

 

[newtothis]

And what does 'well clear' mean? How many metres is that?
Is well clear the same distance when you're in a narrow channel as when you're 10 miles offshore?

I was not proposing that the RRS definition of keeping clear would be appropriate, merely pointing out that the RRS have a clear mechanism for deciding what is meant by 'keeping clear'.

It's always possbile to think greater clearance is needed than the other guy thinks is plenty.
As the OP's username labels him as less experienced, it's possible he is wanting other people to give him a great deal of space because he likes to give others that kind of space. Personally, if I deduce somebody is not very experienced, I tend to keep well away, it makes for a quiet life. If someone is helming their boat very skilfully, they're less likely to panic when you duck their transom, compared to the average.

Don't read too much into the user name. It was relevant when I joined up, but it's more of a memento incompenti now. One thing I've learned over ten years on boats is that the more I learn, the more I understand what I don't know. Which is why I'm happy to ask for the collective wisdom here, but the second-guessing I could live without.
Yes, I would give others plenty of space. But this was a case where if I'd borne off a few degrees I'd have been alongside the guy overtaking.

 

[newtothis]

Seconded, the Colregs apply to all vessels, and 99% of us can not, and should not be expected to know, nor care, what some random comittee of hyped-up hooray Henries have invented over a tray of stiff pinkies in the Yacht Club.

This all happened in Greece, so more likely to have been a tray of ouzo or Mythos.

 

[lw395]

Don't read too much into the user name. It was relevant when I joined up, but it's more of a memento incompenti now. One thing I've learned over ten years on boats is that the more I learn, the more I understand what I don't know. .....

Ten years on boats? It's a very basic colregs question. Was it really a question at all or just a 'some inferior person cut me up' moan as an excuse to take a dig at people who race?

 

[newtothis]

Ten years on boats? It's a very basic colregs question. Was it really a question at all or just a 'some inferior person cut me up' moan as an excuse to take a dig at people who race?

Can I suggest you read the original question and my responses to the thread before you start questioning my motives. Maybe it is a basic Colregs question, but I'm man enough to admit I didn't know the answer so I asked here. It must be great being the world expert on everything.
At no point have I suggested the other person was inferior or even cut me up. I said that I got out of the way because I wasn't comfortable with the proximity. I mentioned the fact that he was racing to set the context, not to say racing was bad.
These boards can be really useful, and indeed served their purpose here in answering my question, but when people start questioning why a question was asked to make a point they lose their appeal.
So yeah, 10 years on boats. Sorry I didn't know the answer. Was your post really an answer or just some "superior person trying to show off how much they know" and take a dig at people who don't race?

 

[dom]

I should probably know the answer to this, but don't.
I was on port tack when a single-hander in a race fleet, also on port but going much faster than me, came up behind me on my starboard side.

...he came up alongside to starboard and was closing me from there. I couldn't have changed course to allow him to cross my stern without going into him, and I suspect he was already as close hauled as he could be.
There may have been more room than I felt there was; he could have been a few feet away and not collided, but it was closer than I was comfortable with. Which I supppose raises another question: how close is too close?

I get it that racers' views of the Colregs are different to others, and I've stood my ground to racers on other occasions when I knew I was in the right, but in this case I was doubting myself because I was windward.

In the absence of diagrams, distances, speeds, etc., there's no way to make detailed Colreg judgments about this.

As for the tired old claptrap that racers believe they are above the rest; all that seems to have happened here is that a much faster boat came up from beneath you, passed by in fairly close proximity, and then sailed swiftly off into the distance.

No damage done and he probably doesn't even recall this so-called incident.

Next time, why not chill out, smile, and just enjoy the day

 

[LadyInBed]

a much faster boat came up from beneath you

B Hell! I didn't realise it was a submarine

 

[newtothis]

In the absence of diagrams, distances, speeds, etc., there's no way to make detailed Colreg judgments about this.

As for the tired old claptrap that racers believe they are above the rest; all that seems to have happened here is that a much faster boat came up from beneath you, passed by in fairly close proximity, and then sailed swiftly off into the distance.

No damage done and he probably doesn't even recall this so-called incident.

Next time, why not chill out, smile, and just enjoy the day

Next time, why not read my original post; I was extremely chilled out and didn't make a fuss, and did enjoy my day. I just asked here because I was unclear about the rules, and have so far been told I'm an ignorant, pathologically stressed-out racer hater, among other things.

Anyone else who wants to judge my character, knock yourselves out. My question has been answered by the good guys on this site with my gratitude, so I'm done with this thread.

 

[dom]

Next time, why not read my original post; I was extremely chilled out and didn't make a fuss, and did enjoy my day. I just asked here because I was unclear about the rules, and have so far been told I'm an ignorant, pathologically stressed-out racer hater, among other things.

Anyone else who wants to judge my character, knock yourselves out. My question has been answered by the good guys on this site with my gratitude, so I'm done with this thread.

Look again and you’ll see I referenced my reply to your original post.

Good answer though, throws some useful light on what might have happened !!

 

[LittleSister]

Was it really a question at all or just a 'some inferior person cut me up' moan as an excuse to take a dig at people who race?

I can't see anything at all in the OPs original question or subsequent remarks to suggest this is a dig at racers or anything else other than a qenuine query.

As for the tired old claptrap that racers believe they are above the rest;

I can't see that the OP, or anyone else, has suggested anything of the sort.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Next time, why not read my original post; I was extremely chilled out and didn't make a fuss, and did enjoy my day. I just asked here because I was unclear about the rules, and have so far been told I'm an ignorant, pathologically stressed-out racer hater, among other things.

Anyone else who wants to judge my character, knock yourselves out. My question has been answered by the good guys on this site with my gratitude, so I'm done with this thread.

:encouragement: Well said that man.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I can't see that the OP, or anyone else, has suggested anything of the sort.

A few of the postings on this thread might however lead one to for the view that some racers do indeed hold that opinion of themselves.

 

[dom]

I can't see that the OP, or anyone else, has suggested anything of the sort.

My post #49 referenced one of his comments

People that antagonistic just seem to seek out trouble. Guess it’s just the way of things.

 

[LittleSister]

My post #49 referenced one of his comments

You suggested he'd said something to the effect that racers believe they were above the rest. He'd said no such thing.

People that antagonistic just seem to seek out trouble. Guess it’s just the way of things.

Who have been the antagonistic ones on this thread?

 

[dom]

You suggested he'd said something to the effect that racers believe they were above the rest. He'd said no such thing.

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

There’ll be two sides to this story though and we only have one. I have a sense of things, others may have theirs.

 

[davidlhill]

I don't want to disparage racers in any way, but really! Just to give context, I raced dinghys and yachts for over 20 years. If the colregs were followed by racers a windward start in a force 6 could never happen, as there is a constant risk of collision. Approaching a windward mark? Ditto. A dinghy on port dipping the transom of a starboard tack boat shouldn't happen according to the colgregsd as well before I commence the dip I should have borne or tacked away! As such racers know (or should do!) the RRS, and in the main they coincide with the colregs (I believe) and as such that's all they usually bother to learn.

The OP asked a sensible question without beginning to imply he was stresssed out about the situation, just curious.

 

[DJE]

racers know (or should do!) the RRS, and in the main they coincide with the colregs (I believe) and as such that's all they usually bother to learn.

But the OP has described one of the situations where they are not the same. Once overlapped the racing boat to leeward might think he has right of way over the windward boat. But under Colregs he is still overtaking and should keep clear.