Colregs poser

[PhilipStapleton]

What is your status when hoisting sail with the engine off?
At what point in the manoeuvre are you deemed to be on one tack or another?

I offer - "not under command" and "when the sail starts drawing"

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[duncan]

the obvious answer is 'wearing a large hat with a D on it'........surely you would never switch the engine off before you had a sail set and drawing?

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[VicS]

I agree the situation would appear to fall within the definition of a "vessel not under command" but you must then hoist two black balls or show two allround red lights.

The colregs define port or starboard tacks as when the wind is blowing from the port or starboard side. No mention is made as to whether the sails are drawing or not but I suggest you continue to show the "not under command" signal until they are as until you have steerage way you cannot manoeuvre to give way to other vessels.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>Ne te confundant illegitimi.</font color=purple>

 

[ubuysa]

Rule 3 (b) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

Since in your proposed (and hypothetical??) situation you are not (yet) under sail, then you are not a sailing vessel under COLREGS and you won't be until the sail draws. So I guess I agree with you - hypothetically speaking of course.

Tony C.



<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[PhilipStapleton]

Ah but....

previous posts have decided (!) that if the engine is not propelling you (ie it is in neutral) you, you're still a sailing vessel

and anyway, you might not have an engine, so there!

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[jamesjermain]

You are 'under way and making way' the moment you drop the buoy or the anchor clears the sea bed, assuming you are hoisting sail at anchor or mooring. Thus you are on the tack of the side opposite to the boom, or the side the wind is coming from if the boom is amidships.

If you are hoisting sail from a situation where you are neither motoring, at anchor, moored or aground (eg becalmed), you will have been 'under way but not making way' and almost certainly not under command so you will have the relevant shapes/lights hoisted. As soon as one sail or the other is fully hoisted and sheeted you are under command (assuming there is any breeze at all) and port/starboard tack rules apply.

Why do you ask?

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[duncan]

firstly you brought the engine into it! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

secondly if you had your engine on going over the start line last Saturday (RTI) you would have been a disqualified vessel not a sailing one ............and producing a forum thread in evidence isn't likely to change the committees mind! However I would also agree that Rule 3 (3) is not overly clear here as
not being used in conjunction to an engine would mean running but the motive power is the prop so not going round, being driven......?????
finally this route would of course suggest that any powered craft can stand on by simly putting the engine in neutral; and by flying a burgee and having the wind over the starboard quarter claim almost absolute rights !!!!!!!

More seriously I find it hard to believe that 'not under comand' is a valid solution. Isn't there something in there (Colregs) that states a skipper shall not intentionally put his vessel in a situation etcetc so you wouldn't put yourself in a not under command situation. If fact the definition of not under command includes the reference to 'exceptional circumstances', which hardly seems to apply to a craft raising sail.

I could suggest that you are in fact a sailing vessel and better get some sails up pretty sharp so that you can act like one ...............

Overall a very interesting question

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[starboard]

Would be interested to hear how many leisure yachts carry "Not under command" day marks or lights!!!

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[LadyInBed]

Got caught by this on a recent post.
Rule 27 Vessels not under command, or restricted in their ability to manoeuvre
(g) Vessels of less than 12 metres in length, except those engaged in diving operations shall not be required to exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in this Rule.
So you can remove your red lights from the window and put your black balls away.


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[tcm]

Re: not NUC imho

um, if you have a working engine that you could switch on at a moment's notice you are surely not NUC - otherwise any powered vessel without engine on, without anchor down, but just bobbing about - is also nuc? Sailing boat happens to be setting sails but could easily be making a cup of tea. Since sails not drawing, hardly making way so it would have to be another boat cutting very fine to creat a collision situation. NUC would be if er bit of the sail gear somehow wrapped around the prop, hence no sail and no power. imho.

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[VicS]

I would think the number carrying these shapes and lights is not far removed from zero. My suggestion was made somewhat tongue in cheek.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>Ne te confundant illegitimi.</font color=purple>

 

[VicS]

No length was specified in the original question and the poser does not currently own a boat. He is, however, attempting to earn a living in the sailing world so if he aspires to be the skipper of a superyacht paragraph 'g' will not apply.

Ps I did not read that far, of course, until you pointed it out but at least I've found an escape route

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>Ne te confundant illegitimi.</font color=purple>

 

[Talbot]

I dont think it is very nice calling the original question asker a "poser" /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

If the vessel is under way, but not making way, my reading of the rules is that others have to avoid that vessel. As soon as the sails start drawing, then you are making wayand the normal collision rules apply.

The same situation could happen in the doldrums - If you are moving then it is always a part of the rules that you must avoid collision (even in circumstances where it is clearly your right of way)

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[duncan]

ah good sound practical sense..............

I too would put him in the same category as -
Boat trying to start engine - but not anchored
Boat recovering anchor

Unless of course he suddenly swung into the wind infront of me in a channel, cut the engine and left the cockpit heading for the mast. In this case I would off course avoid a collission but might just feel a few well chosen words in order!

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif