Colregs blues

kengill

kengill

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There was I pottering happily away (2 1/2 knots) on port tack out of the backwaters when this smaller boat I was overhauling decided to tack.

No problem. I ascertained that a risk of collision existed ,, disengaged the tiller pilot and pointed the bows at his stern and then kept rounding up to minimise my loss of ground to windward. As I passed at least a metre from his stern he accused me of ignoring the regs and said I should have given way. But I had and he then commented in a lively fashion that I should not pass so close.

If I'd been racing the CPE would have been a couple of centimetres at best. What was his beef? Am I guilty of not considering his perceived inadequacy?
 
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As I passed at least a metre from his stern

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You took positive action, but is a metre a safe passing distance? I'd certainly be a bit miffed, stern chasing rarely leaves room for error.
 
I agree with what you did for what it is worth. I do the same thing. I generally make a large correction to show I am giving away and then point at the stern of the stand on boat and follow it around.
This person had probably never raced and didn't like the fact that you passed too close, but as you say that might be his problem.
Someone annoyed me the other day, I was upwind boat, both on port tack, I turned onto a gullwing to pass behind, waved at them and didn't get a wave back but a nasty scowl.
As with 99% of things people are good out there.
 
You may have confidence in your abilities - but why should anyone else.

To achieve a miss by a metre cannot be clear to the other party that it isn't going to be a hit.

The whole point of regulations is that both parties know what is happening and what is going to happen next. Note both parties not just you.
 
No problem with that, if I'm going to pass close to somebody I try make sure that I have signalled my intention to yield with the sort of dip from course that you describe. It can be unsettling to be in the stand on situation and have a boat approaching close, particularly when the helmsman is hidden by the genny. Even in congested waters, like the Solent, it is not unusual to find that a boat is being driven by the autopilot, whilst the crew are happily supping a cuppa!
 
You might have pointed out that as the 'stand on' vessel, he shouldn't have tacked in front of you. But as the others have suggested, a metre may be a bit too close for the comfort of many.
 
We don't know the situation fully.
On the lake when a boat is coming up to pass you sometimes have to tack to avoid being driven onto a lee shore as the overtaking boat doesn't seem to have grasped the situation (often MOBOs, but it does happen with sailors).

On the matter of being happy to do do it under racing conditions. I can't see the relevance here.
Some guy out for a cruise hasn't entered into any understanding with you about close quarter manouvering and I would also be annoyed at some berk sliding up my stern. Do you also drive up tight behind cars on the road because it's OK to do it in BTCC races?
 
We once did this when racing and were going for the metre clearance off the stern - when a sudden gust made it less than a metre! No time to drop the main further, or more to the point, no one had been assigned to control it. Still missed him but it was a tad too close for me and the other guy.
 
It's stupid to create a close quarters situation unnecessarily, especially under cruising conditions. If one of you had made a mistake or a piece of equipment failed, a collision could have resulted which could have easily been avoided.
The close quarters situation also creates unnecessary nervousness in the recipient who doesn't know anything about your boathandling skills. It's bad seamanship and bad judgement on the part of the perpetrator. So there!
 
I agree with both your words and sentiment but would suggest that it would be easier to recreate a little video of the facts as presented that everyone here would be comfortable with than the mention of a metre might suggest.

Speeds, boats sizes, angles and conditions...........how close was the tack 'in front' , how fast/hurried the reaction. tacking to pass behind a boat that you are overtaking sounds a pretty controlled manoevere, as does coming up (as opposed to staying up)

so my 'vote' would be on balance to believe the poster was entitled to feel the way he did and that the other boat didn't really have a lot to complain about as you took the action to pass behind him. Unless of course he was complaining about your wake? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

now crossing in front with a metre seperation................
 
In "close quarters" colregs situations I find the main thing is to communicate with the stand on vessel - a simple wave and smile along with a deliberate move will show that you are intending to give way.
2.5 knots is a leisurely pace - but I don't know if I would've felt uncomfortable at at least 1m clearance - it depends if contact was made and what my speed was.
 
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I don't know if I would've felt uncomfortable at at least 1m clearance - it depends if contact was made

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I'm going to guess that with 1m clearance contact was avoided.......... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

again I agree the principle you indicate but without video evidence you can't know how uncomfortable you would feel, let alone predict how uncomfortable someone else shoud or could feel.

I get uncomfortable anchored mid channel fishing (not in the charted lanes) when very large vessels pass within 50m, let alone 1; it's better when they are actually on a collision course and make a clear move to miss (once they have made that move!).

In the channels at Portsmouth, heading into Cowes and certainly in Poole you will get vessels overtaking and or going the other way with 3m clearance and a confused sea at times - fine for a keeled boat but small planning craft wallow 1-2 m of any sort of wash at low speeds!
Finally most think little of 1-2 m clearance with 120mph closing speeds over and over again on an A road............
 
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most think little of 1-2 m clearance with 120mph closing speeds over and over again on an A road............

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Now that is just not a like-for-like comparison.

-If you car slid sideways a foot or two every now and then you'd get out and walk.
-You haven't accounted for someone doing a right turn and you aiming for their back end, assuming they don't stall or brake or deviate or select reverse.
 
I have no problem with close quarters when racing -but that because I know who I'm up against and can judge whether they will be comfortable and consistant -as they can me. But I keep well clear of unknown cruising boats asa matter ofcomfort and courtesy unless there is a real problem forcing the situation
 
Walton entrance

The channel becomes narrow south of High Hill, and very narrow indeed in the actual entrance, which is a dog leg, with the buoys carried over the bank on the ebb.

This is not a place to go playing silly beggars, if the weather conditions are anything other than benign.
 
I agree it's not like for like but at 1 - 2 mph closing speed in calm conditions I am suggesting that there is no real reason to be unhappy with someone rounding up to pass close astern after they have changed course to give way to me and my vessel.............how close do you get when walking through a crowded pavement / shopping centre?
 
It's really a case of being in one's comfort zone. Someone walking by me may brush my sleeve, that's ok. If he wants to talk to me, then if he gets closer than about 2ft, I don't like it.

If someone comes as close as 1m from my stern, on a pseudo-collision course up to that moment ("tracking round..."), then I would be well pissed off, and it would bring out the worst in me - some choice words to add to his vocabulary!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
As with all things - it is subjective ... and this one is dependent on the stand on vessel being happy that the other vessel will actually miss him - I can only guess he didn't - but if he thought to little action was being made then he should've altered his course/speed to avoid the situation rather than berate the other helm after the event...

IMHO
Little boat racing - 1 foot is considered clearance ...
Big boat sailing - at least a boat length in clear water - decreasing as the wind drops or in harbour.
 
Since when is a couple of metres a problem on the motorway? If the police think its perfectly reasonable to drive within a few metres of ny bumper - why then its good enough for anyone else /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In this case he was tacking - quite reasonably from the starboard edge of the channel . Its just that at that state of tide you could have driven Johanna Lucretia over the sand ridge at the side of the channel and in reality he did not actually need to tack to just 10 metres beyond my track.


After he quite reasonably tacked on me, when he was about 80 metres away, I watched his subsequent track and speed and made a 45 degree course alteration to starboard, when he was about 50 metres away to point at his stern and then followed him from that point through a change of course of another 45 degrees .

H should have been aware of what I and yes I did check most carefully for a trailing log - I know I've lost them during racing!!
 
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