ColRegs and solo sailors

[GHA]

Simply offering an answer to the OPs question.

about rule 5?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I think you simply haven't understood the consequences of your demand that AIS be made compulsory and its impact in crowded coastal waters where overloading AIS will nullify its usefulness.

On the start line of a race with a fleet of experienced racers who fully understand the RRS and can helm and manage their boats competently I would be quite comfortable with another boat three or four feet away. With the RTIR with cruising sailors who don't normally race going mad for the day, I'd really like them a bit further away. With a bloody great big oil tanker, 100 yds is damn close.

You are advocating that they all have compulsory AIS and you reckon identifying them by CPA and TCPA would help identify the risk. How on earth does that identify that the port tacker passing 20' in front of the bow isn't a risk and the tanker coming up from astern yet still a mile away is?

Things work fine now. Big ships have AIS. Private boats have voluntary fit and if they have it they can turn it on in open waters and turn it off in crowded coastal waters.

The thread is addressing lookout not avoidance. In your scenario you are aware of both threats. If you haven't spotted the tanker coming up from astern your AIS will. And his will spot you too.

And with CPA AIS will tell you how close you will be even if you don't know how to take a bearing so it has enhanced your situational awareness. There is no logical reason not to fit a TX/RX AIS.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

about rule 5?

Rule 5 requires that "every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.'

Apart from racing when collisions are not a function of lookout but failure to apply appropriate avoiding action, when is AIS not appropriate?

 

[Woodlouse]

The thread is addressing lookout not avoidance. In your scenario you are aware of both threats. If you haven't spotted the tanker coming up from astern your AIS will. And his will spot you too.

And with CPA AIS will tell you how close you will be even if you don't know how to take a bearing so it has enhanced your situational awareness. There is no logical reason not to fit a TX/RX AIS.

Using that logic there is no reason not to fit a radar, which will pick up other vessels and provide their CPA and TCPA whether they have AIS or not. A far superior tool.

 

[bbg]

Apart from racing when collisions are not a function of lookout but failure to apply appropriate avoiding action, when is AIS not appropriate?

I would say that transmitting AIS from a pleasure craft in confined and crowded waters is not appropriate. I see no problem in transmitting when crossing the channel or sailing offshore, but in the Solent (for example) you will get a better picture if you just receive the big boys.

 

[GHA]

Apart from racing when collisions are not a function of lookout but failure to apply appropriate avoiding action, when is AIS not appropriate?

You suggested mandatory ais transducers. Rule 5 is watching only, says nothing about letting others know about your own vessil. if we're getting picky about it.

 

[lpdsn]

The thread is addressing lookout not avoidance. In your scenario you are aware of both threats. If you haven't spotted the tanker coming up from astern your AIS will. And his will spot you too.

I'm addressing lookout too, not avoidance. If the tanker is 200th of the list of closest vessels in the AIS system because you've made everyone have one fitted, AIS will be no use warning me of its presence. I simply won't get that far down the list when evaluating risks. I will only know about it if I look astern and see it using Mk 1 eyeball.

Similarly, if the tanker has four or five hundred yachts on its AIS it will not be able to spot other large vessels via AIS, so it will have filtered out Class B transmissions and AIS will have done nothing to help them spot me or any other yacht either.

And with CPA AIS will tell you how close you will be even if you don't know how to take a bearing so it has enhanced your situational awareness. There is no logical reason not to fit a TX/RX AIS.

I know how to take a bearing for a start, but that aside I agree that a decent AIS can be a useful aid if used properly, and I consider proper use to include not transmitting in crowded waters, but that's not the discussion we're having. You said you want to make its fitting and use compulsory. That is way different.

 

[Uricanejack]

I confess that this year , whilst single handing in the Black Deep I was missed by a large container ship by about 40-60 feet
The ship did not see me & I cannot understand how I could not see an object of thousands of tonnes.
They must have had a look out in such a narrow channel but made no sound. In fact I did not hear a thing untill the bow suddenly appeared over my left shoulder

Thing is, if I had had my wife or another crew aboard it does not mean they would not have been down below reading a book
If I am single handing, radar or AIS would be useless as there is no way ( being a serious seas sick sufferer) I could go below to look at it
Some times in rough weather, when I am with a crew or not, they or I cannot get below to read instruments or turn off that damned DSC alarm
So the real issue is not so much single handing ,but the duty of those assigned the task to keep a proper lookout.

That near miss is not the first time. 40 years ago I was so close to collision with a large unloaded ship ( The prop was partly out of the water) that the water spray from the prop went into the cockpit. We had 3 on board & once again it was carelessness that almost cost us our lives.

I could not begin to tell you how many times I have been on watch and failed to see something I should have seen. fortunatly for me my lapses and errors have been caught by others. Or we were just fortunate we missed. I don't think any honnest sailor with much expierience has never had a learning expierience. just enogh to give you a bit of a fright and refocus your attention. The thing is when my attention wandered all the aids were not much help.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I'm addressing lookout too, not avoidance. If the tanker is 200th of the list of closest vessels in the AIS system because you've made everyone have one fitted, AIS will be no use warning me of its presence. I simply won't get that far down the list when evaluating risks. I will only know about it if I look astern and see it using Mk 1 eyeball.

Similarly, if the tanker has four or five hundred yachts on its AIS it will not be able to spot other large vessels via AIS, so it will have filtered out Class B transmissions and AIS will have done nothing to help them spot me or any other yacht either.



I know how to take a bearing for a start, but that aside I agree that a decent AIS can be a useful aid if used properly, and I consider proper use to include not transmitting in crowded waters, but that's not the discussion we're having. You said you want to make its fitting and use compulsory. That is way different.

200 yachts closer in range, CPA or TCPA? If there are 200 yachts closer than the threat the it isn't the immediate threat! AIS doesn't have to be displayed as a list! AIS will Identify the guy coming around the headland that you or your radar cannot see. AIS warnings can be set thereby eliminating all the targets which are not an immediate threat. AIS works at night and in fog and if you're dozing at the helm an AIS alarm will get your attention.

I offered a possible solution. Your counter is only concerned with one scenario a busy day in the Solent. Even so I'm not convinced that "overloaded" AIS is a valid counter. Anyway I'm off to follow the minis for a while thanks to their AIS

 

[bbg]

Anyway I'm off to follow the minis for a while thanks to their AIS

Unless they've changed the rules since I did it, all boats are required to have AIS transmitters on board and installed. There is no rule requiring that they be turned on, and I did in fact turn mine off occasionally when I didn't want others to see that I was gybing at night, for example. Some people never turned them on.

The boats are all fitted with satellite transmitters. That's what you are following.

 

[Uricanejack]

Mandate compulasry use of AIS transponders on all vessels.
Job done.

AIS is already mandatory for commercial vessels.

I might have missunderstood your suggestion. It appears to me you are recommending every one else should be required to fit AIS so you don't have to keep a lookout.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Unless they've changed the rules since I did it, all boats are required to have AIS transmitters on board and installed. There is no rule requiring that they be turned on, and I did in fact turn mine off occasionally when I didn't want others to see that I was gybing at night, for example. Some people never turned them on.

The boats are all fitted with satellite transmitters. That's what you are following.

http://new.marinetraffic.com/en/

!!!

 

[Buck Turgidson]

AIS is already mandatory for commercial vessels.

I might have missunderstood your suggestion. It appears to me you are recommending every one else should be required to fit AIS so you don't have to keep a lookout.

Where have I suggested using AIS instead of lookout?

 

[bbg]

http://new.marinetraffic.com/en/

!!!

Yes but they won't all be on there. I decided to click on one boat, just one. Bizarrely it was my old boat and the AIS still transmits its old name Black Mamba.

 

[doris]

Unless they've changed the rules since I did it, all boats are required to have AIS transmitters on board and installed. There is no rule requiring that they be turned on, and I did in fact turn mine off occasionally when I didn't want others to see that I was gybing at night, for example. Some people never turned them on.

The boats are all fitted with satellite transmitters. That's what you are following.

In all the short handed races I have done recently, at the skippers briefing it has been made clear that AIS transponders remain turned on all the time.

 

[oldbilbo]

This is beginning to shape up.

What about lights...?

 

[Ravi]

This thread seems to have lost the very interesting point that the OP made. He was talking about single handed sailors. Presumably, ones who have to sleep sometimes.

i.e. People in large expanses of water, asleep, not at the helm and possibly in a shiping lane.

NOT people surrounded by 200 yachts and 1 large oncoming super tanker.

It seems unlikely that a singlehander will go below for a kip in the middle of the Solent in the middle of Round The Island race and really I don't think that is what the OP meant!

 

[GHA]

This is beginning to shape up.

What about lights...?

Ah now we're getting I to it.

Way offshore I go for white. bright as you can do with power available. But doubt if it will be seen by anyone 500 miles offshore. Maybe.

As for sound, voodoo Chile by Stevie ray Vaughan at 130dB might not assist collision avoidance but YEAH BABY!!!!

 

[Uricanejack]

Where have I suggested using AIS instead of lookout?

I might have got it wrong. I thought you posted about staying awake until getting clear of the continental shelf when you could rely on AIS and CPA limits to warn you about ships while you slept.

The rest I assumed.

If I was wrong and you are not sugesting it is ok to rely on AIS while you sleep I applogise for my missunderstanding.

 

[GHA]

I might have got it wrong. I thought you posted about staying awake until getting clear of the continental shelf when you could rely on AIS and CPA limits to warn you about ships while you slept.

The rest I assumed.

If I was wrong and you are not sugesting it is ok to rely on AIS while you sleep I applogise for my missunderstanding.

That was me
Not necessarily OK, but it's either that or stay at home. it's so empty out there I'm OK taking the risk.