colregs again.. tacking in front of a mobo

Re: Please explain??

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

please clarify 'origional'

<hr></blockquote>

ok.

I was clean shaven when the <font color=blue>original</font color=blue> post was sent, but now I have a beard.

Someone please kill this thread, it is going nowhere.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>
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Re: Re shaving

Me being a bit of a wimp , I use an rechargeable electrical shaver, so at least it would have had time to recharge.


If I'd remembered to plug it in/forums/images/icons/frown.gif

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Re: speed

I agree with your comment about the mototr boat heading into wind approaching a yacht tacking to windward - but in essence this isn't really an "overtaking" situation - at that point in time the two vessels are not on the same course, so this is a simple crossing issue which isn't at question.

My point about speed is that it directly affects the vessels abilities to respond to a situation, which I hadn't noticed anyone else taking into consideration.

Q: "Who is in the right/wrong if a yacht tacks in front of an overtaking motor boat which results in a collision?"

My points are:

In open water, the motor boat has no reason to be close enough for this to be an issue - it is easy for it to provide ample space to allow the yacht to do practically anything it likes and still provide the motor vessel with the time and opportunity to take safe avoiding action, if necessary.

In confined waters, where the above cannot be applied then the overtaking vessel needs to consider its speed and ability to respond to any unexpected actions of the vessel being overtaken. If the result is that the skipper of the motor vessel concludes that they cannot overtake safely, then they should wait until the opportunity arises. There is no given right that a faster vessel must be able to overtake a slower one is any situation.

So my answer is:

In the event of a impact the overtaking vessel is always in the wrong, though I could understand the skipper of the sailing yacht also being in the wrong if thier actions were solely cause by the crew of the yacht (ie rounding up in a gust if they have too much sail up, tacking simply because they have reached their "lay-line", etc)

why am I wrong?

Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>
 
Re: speed

Interesting point of view.
In Phandango's post when he was trying to overtake a yacht, the yacht by it's skippers own admission deliberately tried to prevent the mobo from overtaking.
The original post was should a sailing vessel being the stand on vessel maintain her course and speed when being overtaken as per rule 17. why do you think that isn't applicable to sailing vessels?

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Re: speed

No, I don't believe that it does not apply for a sailing vessel (re maintaining course and speed). Though 17(b) does indicate that the stand on vessel can change course/speed to avoid a collision of thier own (presumably this includes both other vessels and the shore).

In open waters, where there are no other constraints, there are no reaons for the sailing vessel to alter course, nor for the motor vessel (as the overtaking craft) to be so close that it should matter if the sailing vessel does, or does not, maintain its course.

Problems can and do happen, if (for some reason) the steering on the sailing vessel broke, she would normally round up and probably tack (as an example). There may be little the skipper of the sailing vessel can do to prevent this in time. If the yacht did this in front of an overtaking motor vessel, which subsequently hit the yacht - who is at fault? (remember in this case this is an open water situation)

To my mind the motor vessel: by choosing to overtake the sailing vessel in close quarters and at such a speed that he could not react to the developing situation to prevent a collision.

Naturally if the yacht tacks on purpose for its own reasons (not covered by 17(b)) it is at fault as well.

Within resticted waters or narrow channels I still don't see how the responsibility of the overtaking motor vessel is changed. If the waters are so restricted that they cannot leave a safe space around the yacht, then perhaps they should not be considering overtaking it.

Should the yacht should be sailing in such a situation is a good question, and would depend on the channel in question and wind direction/strength. Beating up a narrow channel is unlikely to be effective if the channel is so narrow that there isn't sufficient space for a vessel to overtake while allowing an adequate safe margin around the vessel being overtaken. So to my mind the yacht should not be sailing in the first place. On the other hand a simple reach down the same channel could be achieved safely, if undertaken at a suitable speed.

So, if my view is wrong, why?

Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>
 
Re: speed

In my opinion yes. All vessels have the responsibility to avoid a collision, regardless whether the mobo was in breach of the regs, the yacht has the responsibility to take action to avoid a collision, he can't pass that responsibility onto someone else 2 wrongd don't make a right.
I'm not a lawyer, so if you want a more definate answer speak to someone well versed in maritime law.

Now can we please let this thread die

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Re:It might need...

Yep, think we should use Jools idea and now discuss the merits of being cleanshaven, bearded or perhaps whether designer stubble is better/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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Re:It might need...

Shaven head and stubble with Doc Marten Deck Shoes. Then nobody will fancy arguing the toss over Col Regs!

Oh b####x were kicking this thread off again!

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I might draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.
 
Hello...have I missed anything???

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>"I am a bear of very little brain and long words bother me" - A A Milne.
 
Saturady 24th ...

I was raggie under engine .... had a sail yacht Amerita tack hard under me putting me into precisely what you quote here ....

I had emergency action to take to avoid hitting him .... he just stood on shouting Sail over power .... etc.

I wish I had something to throw at him that would a) hurt !, b) mark him for life, c) make sure he couldn't do it to another ....


As I understood after all the years at sea .... you should not alter course or take any action that changes the stand-on or give way situation or that causes emergenecy action to be taken by one or both parties. This guy did just that - tacked and in his view put me into give-way situation - despite the fact that initially I was clear and free to proceed without risk of collision.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
 
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