COLREG when one boat is much faster than another

[LittleSister]

Rowing boats are powered by levers a form of machine => machine driven. Not so sure about canoes or SUPs.

No, that's wrong (as I've said on this forum many times before). Why are people so keen to overcomplicate and add confusion to what are a commendably straightforward set of rules that help keep us all safe?

That broad definition of a machine is not used by the ColRegs, otherwise
(a) vessels under oars would not be an explicitly separate class under the Regs for the purposes of navigation lights, and
(b) sailing vessels would also be power driven vessels by virtue of their masts, booms, etc. being levers.

Clearly canoes and Sound Up Paddleboards are vessels under oars just as much as a rowing boat.

 

[LittleSister]

As the COLREGs don't deal explicitly with responsibilities between vessels where one is neither a sailing vessel nor a power-driven vessel, I have often been curious about what other principles, customs or understandings may apply there.
The COLREGs seem to be based on an underlying 'more manoeuvrable thing gives way to less manoeuvrable thing' principle, but is that articulated anywhere? Common sense and courtesy should of course apply, as well as all the COLREGs requirements (avoiding a collision, maintaining a proper look-out, safe speed etc.). However even I would have imagined that over hundreds (thousands?) of years of seafaring, principles / customs would have evolved to cover non-sailing vessels such as rowing boats, rafts, canoes etc. even if our ancestors didn't have to deal with some of the other non-sailing vessels that we may, such as kite surfers, SUPs, wing foilers, foil surfers and the like. I've never succeeded in finding any written indication that's the case though. Do any of you 'old salts' know of such?

Your post seems to be based on a misunderstanding of the treatment of vessels under oars. They're not 'missed out', they're not covered by principles, they are covered by explicit rules. Most of the Col Regs apply to all vessels, and there are just a small minority that apply only to, e.g. crossing situation between power and sail vessels.

A meeting between a vessel that is neither power driven nor sailing with one that is requires both vessels to avoid a collision. One is not given priority over the other on the basis of its means of propulsion, but it would be if one is engaged in fishing, not under command, constrained by draft, narrow channel, etc.

 

[LittleSister]

For those still struggling with this, below is a list of all the rules (numbered) in the Col Regs.

If your vessels is under power, all the rules apply to you (when relevant) except rules 12, 25 and 31 (as these apply only to sailing vessels, vessels under oars or seaplanes).

If your vessel is sailing, all the rules apply to you (when relevant) except rules 14, 15, 23, and 31 (as these apply only to power driven vessels or seaplanes).

If your vessel is under oars, all the rules apply to you (when relevant) except rules 12, 14, 15, 23, 25, and 31 (as these apply only to power driven vessels, sailing vessels or seaplanes).

INTERNATIONAL REGULATIONS FOR PREVENTING COLLISIONS AT SEA, 1972

PART A - GENERAL
1. Application
2. Responsibility
3. General definitions

PART B - STEERING AND SAILING RULES

SECTION I - CONDUCT OF VESSELS IN ANY CONDITION OF VISIBILITY
4. Application
5. Look-out
6. Safe speed
7. Risk of collision
8. Action to avoid a collision
9. Narrow channels
10. Traffic separation schemes

SECTION II - CONDUCT OF VESSELS IN SIGHT OF ONE ANOTHER
11. Application
12. Sailing vessels
13. Overtaking
14. Head-on situation
15. Crossing situation
16. Action by give way vessel
17. Action by stand on vessel
18. Responsibilities between vessels

SECTION III - CONDUCT OF VESSELS IN RESTRICTED VISIBILITY
19. Conduct of vessels in restricted visibility

PART C - LIGHTS AND SHAPES
20. Application
21. Definitions
22. Visibility of lights
23. Power driven vessels underway
24. Towing and pushing
25. Sailing vessels and vessels under oars
26. Fishing vessels
27. Vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to manoeuvre
28. Vessels constrained by their draft
29. Pilot vessels
30. Anchored vessels and vessels aground
31. Seaplanes

PART D - SOUND AND LIGHT SIGNALS
32. Definitions
33. Equipment for sound signal
34. Manoeuvring and warning signals
35. Sound signals in restricted visibility
36. Signals to attract attention
37. Distress signals

PART E - EXEMPTIONS
38. Exemptions

 

[TwoFish]

Your post seems to be based on a misunderstanding of the treatment of vessels under oars. They're not 'missed out', they're not covered by principles, they are covered by explicit rules. Most of the Col Regs apply to all vessels, and there are just a small minority that apply only to, e.g. crossing situation between power and sail vessels.

A meeting between a vessel that is neither power driven nor sailing with one that is requires both vessels to avoid a collision. One is not given priority over the other on the basis of its means of propulsion

No misunderstanding, I fully understand that "all the COLREGs requirements (avoiding a collision, maintaining a proper look-out, safe speed etc.)" apply to all vessels, except where they are stated not to. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I suppose my question is effectively whether there are any understood customs, principles etc beyond the COLREGs. It seems clear there are in some local areas; for example in other threads examples have been given of Port of London Authority rules and Loch Lomond ByLaws which specifically address the conduct of rowing vessels. I'm curious if there may be (or may have been) more widely understood principles/customs or whatever beyond those which were agreed internationally in the COLREGs.

Thank you again for your clear summaries (and not just in this thread) of how the COLREGs work and for your 'mythbusting' on rules of the road issues, which I have found very helpful.

 

[thinwater]

Re. Human Power.

To my understanding, all we have is Rule 2 a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

Roughly translated... common sense. As a seaman, you should understand the capabilities of rowed craft, both as the rower/paddler or as the operator of a large vessel. As rower, you should have the good sense not to place yourself in the way of larger, fastermoving traffic. As a operator of the larger vessel, you should see the paddler in front of you and adjust as required. Yes, rental kayakers will do dumb stuff. I paddle in the harbor all the time and I stay well clear of traffic, crossing lanes as a mature pedestrian would a busy street (look both ways, cross at a 90 degree angle). I think the other assuption is that human powered craft are generarlly restricted to harbor areas and everyone should be proceding at reduced speed and with caution. Thus it is more nusance than serious hazard. You can always reduce trottle or even use reverse. You have brakes on your car and use them in traffic. I'm always surprised on these threads that all of the reactions are in terms of course changes, when the rules clealy state that slowing down and even using reverse is to be considered.

You would think they would have been more specific, but I think the phrase the ordinary practice of seamen says a lot and implies a level of maturity.

 

[thinwater]

Regarding speed, it is a continuum.

• 1 knots faster, both under sail. Obviously, the rules speak to overtaking, and crossing or head to head does not change the meanings.
• Several knots faster. Probably no differences.
• 5-8 knots faster. Commonplace on my trimaran. I'll probably just go around you, but if I have my chute up and we're both power reaching, I would rather you followed the rules. The confusing thing is often shifting winds; it seemed one boat had altered course, but it was only a shift.
• 9-more faster under sail. Good question. Closing speeds of over 20-30 knots make things happen fast, so decisions need to be made hundreds of meters out.
• Both under power, same questions. Similar answers, though it is much easier to give way early, and I nearly always would.