Seajet
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Not to mention a MOB...
Collision in the Chanel du Four
- Thread starter Kasuku
- Start date
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
I don't think its rude to disagree.
Nope. Never been through there. Not familiar with the area. I have sailed through a few others though.
The OP had time and was able to sail through safely. after the collision. Making an attempt to communicate would not take long.
Triassic
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I'm just an argumentative and confrontational kind of guy but if someone had collided with me in the manner described there is no way I'd have watched them sail off in the opposite direction. I'd have turned around and followed them whilst hailing both them and other surrounding yachts for witness details. I'd also be calling the coastguard (or local equivalent) for their assistance if necessary. A tide is a tide, there is always another one along later. Repairing my boat costs money!
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
It's 50/50 in terms of blame and the insurance situation.
Malabar
Well-Known Member
Under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 it is "the duty of the master ... to stay with the other ship until he has ascertained that it has no need for further assistance; and to give the master of the other ship the name of his own ship and also the names of the port from which it comes and to which it is bound". The penalty on summary conviction is a fine not exceeding £50,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or both". That should make him pay attention in future!
prv
Well-Known Member
Interesting - I'd have guessed say 60/40 for stand-on versus keep-clear, and not keeping a proper lookout from the cockpit vs from the cabin.
Pete
RichardS
N/A
Agreed, although I would probably stretch it to 75:25. At these odds I wouldn't have tried to chase down the other vessel or look for witnesses as I was clearly not "the innocent party". I would probably have tried a VHF call or a photo if I were had time once the shock was over.
It wouldn't be surprised if the other yachtsman's version of events is, by now, somewhat "modified" and without the photos or AIS track it's going to be an uphill battle and will probably end up as a first party insurance claim.
Richard
Mister E
Well-Known Member
I am wondering how to avoid another boat that is in the blind spot of the mast and foresail?
RichardS
N/A
I assume that is meant as a jokey comment.
If it's serious, the answer is to take an occasional stroll to the bow (windward quarter of course) and have a look!
Richard
prv
Well-Known Member
I didn't comment on it at the time, but the OP's description of the other boat being hidden "behind the mast" had me fairly baffled. Firstly the simple geometry of the thing - a mast might reasonably obscure a speck on the horizon, but a yacht must surely look wider than a mast long before it becomes an imminent collision risk. Rotating wing-masts possibly excepted, but I think we can discount those.
Secondly, even when the other vessel is so far away as to subtend a smaller angle than the mast - yachts move. However good the helmsman, the boat is going to be yawing more than a mast's width in the waves, so a yacht still apparently small enough to hide behind the mast is in practice going to be showing either side of it. People move too - if you're sat near the stern you've only got to move your head a few inches to one side to place the mast in front of a completely different bit of horizon.
As for the jib - yes, you need to keep a lookout behind it. On most points of sail I can see underneath mine; when close-hauled I can only do so from the leeward side of the cockpit. In that case I periodically move or lean down that way in order to check. In busy waters like the central Solent I either sit on that side or ask someone else to keep a lookout from the leeward bench. Alternatively, from behind the wheel I can sweep the hidden area by bearing away for a second.
Just saying "it's a blind spot" and trusting to luck is not acceptable IMHO.
Pete
macd
Well-Known Member
In the middle of the CdF it's not, unless conditions are particularly benign.
Our genny's quite low, plus we're centre-cockpit, so it's sometimes a bit of a contortion to see under it. If necessary, we put a couple of rolls in to lift the foot of the genoa.
Mister E
Well-Known Member
It was a serious question as it is not always possible or practical to leave the steering and go walk about. So I asked to try and get some suggestions from more experienced sailors.
Those from the busy Solent should have more experience of this problem and how to avoid problems.
Those from the busy Solent should have more experience of this problem and how to avoid problems.
bbg
Well-Known Member
Wow. 50 responses and only a couple are on point.
I think it has been said earlier, but report it to your insurance and let them do the digging.
I'm interested to know how the OP was able to search the SSR. I haven't found a way to do it.
As for looking in the blind spot, the lazy way is to wiggle your course occasionally. Head up a bit then down so you can easily see the whole hidden zone - first a bit below the genoa, then above the genoa. Got to do it fairly regularly, though, or else you might just drive into someone who otherwise would have avoided you.
I think it has been said earlier, but report it to your insurance and let them do the digging.
I'm interested to know how the OP was able to search the SSR. I haven't found a way to do it.
As for looking in the blind spot, the lazy way is to wiggle your course occasionally. Head up a bit then down so you can easily see the whole hidden zone - first a bit below the genoa, then above the genoa. Got to do it fairly regularly, though, or else you might just drive into someone who otherwise would have avoided you.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
We tend to do longer trips with one person on watch and the other down below and have a rule that the person on watch doesn't leave the cockpit without waking the other one up - so in practice we rarely leave the cockpit.
In close quarters situations like Needles channel or Chanel du Four we tend to both be up for an hour, and also to allow a drop of a knot of speed (if that) by rolling away a little bit of genoa to allow us to see under. Then still keep checking while moving from one side of the cockpit to the other to keep an eye on things. Oddly I think we would have more chance of hitting something in a wide empty bit of sea where the genoa would be fully out and we might be relaxed making a coffee or sandwich or something.
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
:disgust:
humm, what is the wording again, about keeping an effective and proper lookout at all times ?
humm, what is the wording again, about keeping an effective and proper lookout at all times ?
westhinder
Well-Known Member
It is standard practice on our boat that the helmsperson regularly moves to the leeward side of the cockpit in order to look under the genoa.. If we are sailing hard on the wind in a busy area, someone will have the specific task to keep watch to leeward under the genoa. If I am sailing on my own I move regularly to keep an all round watch.
Veering off to leeward may not always be sufficient in busy waters, especially if you have a large genoa. Taking a few rolls in the genoa to facilitate viewing is another option.
RichardS
N/A
I don't believe that I'm afraid. We were in 40 kt winds and 2 metre waves a few days ago and I could still go forward enough on the windward side to take a look round the forestay at a different angle. I got a bit wet of course, but that's sailing! You don't have to alter your eye position much at the cockpit to open up a different view forward.
If the CdF is usually worse than that then I'm a monkey's uncle.
Richard
bbg
Well-Known Member
Who cares? That has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP's question, which was how to get contact details for the owner of Kay Cee or possibly Kay Gee.
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
:ambivalence:
You just might well be correct in your observations, but the thread drift has contained the old chestnut of, who was in the right and who was not, who in % terms each was responsible for the incident, and as usual we do have the yachty lawyers stating rules, but surely the overriding rule that applies is 'keeping a proper lookout at all times and being prepared to take necessary avoiding action', so good on seeking contact with the other craft involved and do hope that he /she gets satisfaction.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that I'm afraid. We were in 40 kt winds and 2 metre waves a few days ago and I could still go forward enough on the windward side to take a look round the forestay at a different angle. I got a bit wet of course, but that's sailing! You don't have to alter your eye position much at the cockpit to open up a different view forward.
If the CdF is usually worse than that then I'm a monkey's uncle.
Richard
I agree with you generally but I'm afraid the Chanel du Four is worse than that - not because of high waves although it's not unusual to have a 4-6m long swell in the area with local waves on top. The issue is that it's a bounded by rocks on both side and widens and narrows a lot as a tide rushes through it at up to 7 knots. So everyone goes through before and after slack so it's extremely busy around slack as people going South want to be there early and people going North are taking the last of the stream having got slack 5 hours before at the Raz which is scarier but shorter.
Think of the route up to Scradin with a 6m swell, lots of rocks under the water on both sides, a tide going one way one minute and the other way the next as one stream stops and another starts in different spots all at the same time, with boats pelting along both ways under fast and slow engines and sail. If you stop you could lose your tidal slot and have to do it again 12 hours later in darkness.
I love it but you do have to be attentive.
