Collision in the Chanel du Four

[ripvan1]

CdF is not the place to stop and exchange phone numbers - or playing standing on games Best plan of action is keep well out of possible harm's way - personally I always have engine ticking over ready to get away from likely misunderstandings in this channel.

 

[macd]

CdF is not the place to stop and exchange phone numbers.

Luckily some bloke called Marconi recently came up with a solution to that.

I fully appreciate that in the immediate aftermath, the boat's well-being was the overriding issue. But hands up anyone who wouldn't have considered calling 'Kay Gee' after that.

 

[prv]

Luckily some bloke called Marconi recently came up with a solution to that.

Indeed. It did strike me as odd that the OP didn't try to call on Ch16 (I assume he would have mentioned if he had but got no reply).

Pete

 

[prv]

CdF is not the place to stop and exchange phone numbers - or playing standing on games

He wasn't "playing standing on games" - rather he wasn't keeping an effective lookout so the question of standing on never arose.

Pete

 

[lw395]

Indeed. It did strike me as odd that the OP didn't try to call on Ch16 (I assume he would have mentioned if he had but got no reply).

Pete

Having crashed already, going below to fiddle with the radio may not have been that attractive.....

 

[Triassic]

Rather than holding a post mortem about what happened and why, which less face it is really down to the two parties involved if and when they do ultimately get together, wouldn't it be more useful if we discussed the other issue identified here which is how does one go about identifying and subsequently locating other vessels should we have a need to. I'm really hoping we are never required to display large numbers all over our hulls but it is probably appropriate given the investment some of us have in our vessels that some consideration be given to the matter. This thought crossed my mind on more than one occasion a week or so ago when I was anchored in Studland Bay watching several jet skis using us as markers for slalom practice.....

 

[prv]

Having crashed already, going below to fiddle with the radio may not have been that attractive.....

I suppose I forget that some people inexplicably choose to keep their radios in the living room rather than on the bridge where they can be of use...

Pete

 

[jbweston]

I think the OP asked us for any information that would enable him to contact the owner of the other yacht, not for our opinions on who should have done what under the ColRegs.

Sorry Kasuku, I don't know the yacht Kay Gee or her owners. I don't think these assorted ColRegs advisors do either.

 

[Sandyman]

'' I did get the yachts name "Kay Gee" and it looked like it was berthed in either Southampton or Portsmouth.''

What led you to that conclusion ?

 

[Bob Stay]

2, unless it's really tough conditions, if they can collide both boats should be in the same tide & wind so able to round up or otherwise formate to pass details.

This is yet another one of those occasions where having a camera handy would have been useful, but in the CDF it might understandably be below if not waterproof.

Hi Seajet, it's common down there (and in the Raz) to work out your tides, go for it, then meet other yachts inexplicably going the other way, beating into huge waves and doing about zero knots SOG.
I just assume they have their reasons, but my point was that yachts using the CdF etc are very much constrained by time, so, what ever the conditions, stopping to swap insurance companies is unlikely to be top priority.

 

[JumbleDuck]

He wasn't "playing standing on games" - rather he wasn't keeping an effective lookout so the question of standing on never arose

+1

Having crashed already, going below to fiddle with the radio may not have been that attractive.....

On the bright side, it wouldn't - it couldn't - have made his lookout any worse.

I think the OP asked us for any information that would enable him to contact the owner of the other yacht, not for our opinions on who should have done what under the ColRegs.

True, but one of the joys of the forums is that the answer you get is not always the answer you want. It may also be, of course, that willingness to dob someone in is context-dependent.

 

[Seajet]

Hi Seajet, it's common down there (and in the Raz) to work out your tides, go for it, then meet other yachts inexplicably going the other way, beating into huge waves and doing about zero knots SOG.
I just assume they have their reasons, but my point was that yachts using the CdF etc are very much constrained by time, so, what ever the conditions, stopping to swap insurance companies is unlikely to be top priority.

If I'd been in collision with someone it would be a pretty high priority to swap / get details I'd think !

This as I mentioned is where cameras are so handy.

If the OP was able to get off a quick radio call I wonder if that would be recorded by Coastguard & maybe military and may be evidence later ? I'm sure it would be referred to if the accident had been fatal.

 

[Bob Stay]

If I'd been in collision with someone it would be a pretty high priority to swap / get details I'd think !

This as I mentioned is where cameras are so handy.

If the OP was able to get off a quick radio call I wonder if that would be recorded by Coastguard & maybe military and may be evidence later ? I'm sure it would be referred to if the accident had been fatal.

Yes, camera ideal in that perticular pickle..

 

[ripvan1]

prv - I mentioned stand on some time after reading Mr Duck's post which I found a little confusing (what does spang mean) - in anticipation of insurance claims going in and the obvious question that will be asked - stand on vessel ???

Apologies if I completely misread the situation

"If the OP was capable of missing and then sailing spang into a give way vessel then s/he was presumably also capable of missing and sailing spang into a stand on vessel, an anchored boat or indeed a buoy. It's not one of those cases where avoiding action was expected and not taken, or taken in a way which made matters worse. The skipper of the other boat does not seem to have been terribly competent, to put it mildly, but neither boat sounds as if they were keeping anything close to an effective look-out and neither sounds as if they have a moral leg to stand on."

 

[JumbleDuck]

prv - I mentioned stand on some time after reading Mr Duck's post which I found a little confusing (what does spang mean) - in anticipation of insurance claims going in and the obvious question that will be asked - stand on vessel ???

Followed almost immediately by a rather pointed question about

17 Action by stand-on vessel.

(a)(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.

(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.


"I didn't know the other boat was there so made no attempt to prevent the collision" is not a terribly convincing response.

PS Does http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spang help?

 

[Uricanejack]

Hi Seajet, it's common down there (and in the Raz) to work out your tides, go for it, then meet other yachts inexplicably going the other way, beating into huge waves and doing about zero knots SOG.
I just assume they have their reasons, but my point was that yachts using the CdF etc are very much constrained by time, so, what ever the conditions, stopping to swap insurance companies is unlikely to be top priority.

If you just had a collision it is top priority is to ensure your vessel is safe and not sinking.
Next to stop and enquire if the other vessel requires assistance. The only situation which trumps this requirement is you are unable to assist because having had a collision your vessel is now sinking and you require assistance.
So determine if you need assistance, is the first priority.
The 2nd is determining if the other vessel requires assistance.
Exchanging details. names and contacts should be sufficient until later.
Catching a favourable tide or missing the tide are way down the list.

The OP is fortunate damage was minor.

 

[Uricanejack]

Rather than holding a post mortem about what happened and why, which less face it is really down to the two parties involved if and when they do ultimately get together, wouldn't it be more useful if we discussed the other issue identified here which is how does one go about identifying and subsequently locating other vessels should we have a need to. I'm really hoping we are never required to display large numbers all over our hulls but it is probably appropriate given the investment some of us have in our vessels that some consideration be given to the matter. This thought crossed my mind on more than one occasion a week or so ago when I was anchored in Studland Bay watching several jet skis using us as markers for slalom practice.....

I quite agree.

If you have a collision what should you do?

Check your own vessel for injuries and watertight integrity. are you taking on water.
Enquire if other vessel needs assistance.
Do not separate vessels. until after checked both OK. (a bow in the side may be acting as a plug)

The answer to your question. Call Coast Guard and report collision right away give as much detail as you can.
There is a traffic separation scheme nearby the French will be paying attention.

 

[ripvan1]

Urricane - not being rude but I see you're in Canada - have you you actually been thru' the CdF - as said earlier, tides (and to some extent, lumps of pointed granite can make heaving to and swapping details a very interesting pastime.

Ducks - never heard spang before but thanks for enlightening me.

 

[oldbilbo]

If you have a collision what should you do?
Call Coast Guard and report collision right away give as much detail as you can.
There is a traffic separation scheme nearby the French will be paying attention.

More than that, I suspect there is an obligation in French Law so to do.

And, the prominent building overlooking the Chenal du Four from Pointe Corsen is the home of the French 'centre regional et operationnel de surveillance et de sauvetage'. They could observe the OP and his adversary by looking out the windows....

http://www.dirm.nord-atlantique-manche-ouest.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/swf/visite-cross-corsen_cle019f11.swf

Les CROSS, c'est :
-la réception des alertes à partir d'une veille radio et téléphonique permanente,
-la coordination des opérations de recherche et de sauvetage, y compris lors de sinistres maritimes majeurs.
-la gestion des comptes rendus obligatoires de tous les navires entrant et sortant à chaque extremité de la Manche,
- le suivi de l'evolution des navires en vue de détecter les routes anormales ainsi que tout comportement de nature à genérer des risques pour la navigation,
- la transmission aux navires de toutes les informations nautiques et météorologiques nécessaires à leur navigation,
- l'identification des contrevenants aux règles de la navigation.

I suspect that if your friendly neighbourhood maritime regulators had got a whiff of what's been reported here, both he and the dozy driver of 'Kay Cee' could well be having stand-up interviews with an local examining magistrate.... still.

 

[Simondjuk]

Urricane - not being rude but I see you're in Canada - have you you actually been thru' the CdF - as said earlier, tides (and to some extent, lumps of pointed granite can make heaving to and swapping details a very interesting pastime.

Unless in poor conditions, it's hardly challenging enough to prevent a pause for a brief exchange of words following something as serious as a fairly major collision though.

As with plenty of other places where the chart looks quite scary, the pilot books paint it as much more of a boat-length-wide, helter skelter ride of whirlpools and dragons than I see much reason for. There's plenty of width and navigable water outside the main channel in many places. Given the potentially high SOG going through with a big tide, and especially at night, having a well checked pilotage plan prepared in advance is a must for anyone like me who's not inclined to blindly trust the plotter 100%, avoiding significant wind over tide another.

If I didn't feel confident that I could afford to heave to/need to fit the emergency tiller/unexpectedly need to delay a tack for a couple of minutes somewhere without running into trouble, I'd probably have had second thoughts and not gone there in the first place.