Collision Avoidance - an unwritten rule ?

affinite

affinite

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Just back from a great month cruising in the Ionian. Great that is except for an incident involving a rather heated exchange with an Italian skipper which I hope the panel can advise me on ...

It went like this.

I was sailing on port tack with only my foresail up when I noticed that, at about my 3 oclock position (and to windward), was another yacht, also on port tack - we were on collision course. I believed myself to be the stand-on vessel so I held my course until it became clear that we were going to hit unless I took action. I hailed him and gestured that he should pass behind me but when it was obvious that we both considered ourselves stand-on I did a quick tack to port to avoid the inevitable.
I dont speak Italian but as we parted with various gestures and explitives flying in Italian and English I undestood him to be claiming to be stand-on because he had 2 sails up to my 1.

Was I wrong to assume myself to be stand-on vessel ?

BTW both vessels were sailing yachts at about 10m. Not motor sailing and no restricted manouverabilty issues etc
 
Col regs dont work in the ionian and itallians dont do "give way" two reasons why they dont bother to read or write rules down there!

Great sailing though isnt it!!
 
He probably thought you were motor sailing since you only had one sail up. But for him to be right, you should have had a cone up. So he was wrong,

Mind you, you were both wrong to get into the heated arm waving bit. Life's too short. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
S'alright old chap. You are not going nuts. Same tack - windward boat gives way.
The number of sails is irrelevant. He may perhaps have assumed you had and engine running if you only had one sail up I guess but unless you are showing a cone he has no right to assume that either. I think the hint was in his nationality....
 
Yes - quite....3 o'clock = starboard beam
If Affinite was on port tack then the other chap was down wind, ergo Affinite was the windward boat and therefore the giveway vessel.
On the information given I side with the Italian !!!!
 
Port or Starboard

Well. It depends

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[ QUOTE ]
I undestood him to be claiming to be stand-on because he had 2 sails up to my 1.



[/ QUOTE ] I wonder if he was using international sign language? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

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The unwritten rule in collisions avoidance is to never get close enough for a conversation. You never know what they will yell back.

Another unwritten rule is not to have your boat name on the stern if you are prone to overtaking dangerously.
 
Doh !!
Did I really say both on Port tack, I meant both on Stb tack.
I'm afraid that so much Ooozo passed my lips following the incident that the green and red wires have got crossed in my brain.
 
Unwritten rule ??
Yes, give Italian flagged boats a wide berth (except mine of course!!), especially those sailed by 12+ youngish people with stereo blasting and skipper with Henry LLoyd polo shirt, North Sails shorts, Prada sailing shoes and go-faster sun glasses !!
Thats a give-away for not knowing any of the regulations, but he has got a licence to sail a boat up to 24 metres long anywhere in the world!!!!!!!

Alan.
Nettuno,
ITALY !!!!!!!!!
 
OK - so you were both on starboard and he was on your beam to windward. Looks like a pretty simple windward boat keeps clear issue, unless he was going much slower than you and he felt that you, as the overtaking boat on the same tack, should have avoided him.
 
This brings me to my seamanship angle ....

Whatever the case - allowing a situtaion to develop into a "Close 1/4's sistuation" is not on .... it leads to heart trouble.

I advocate the "Prudence of good seamanship" as taught to me by various old-salts at sea - in other words - if the other looks as though he's going to be an "ar**" - the turn away ... before you both go swimming !!

Anyway - windward boat should keep clear ... as others have said...... having read both your port tacks and stbd tacks posts !! Both on same tack - windward boat "go away" ....

Now a point that interests me :
I am picturing in my mind you bumbling along with wind over stbd rail into your genny ...... and another boat at 3 'o clock ... (90 degrees to stbd) and he's on stbd tack also ...... mmmmmm interesting picture ..... can you add some detail for us ? Such as estimated courses of each boat ? or heading ? To become a close 1/4's situation - he must have been heading at quite an acute angle to you ? not broad angle to you ? Not disbelieving you - just trying to set the scene ....
 
My thoughts too - can't be on port and have rights over boat at 3 o'clock. If Italian was at 9 o'clock then yes he was the give way vessel. Also sounds as if our non-Italian was bearing down on the Italian which is more likely if under headsail alone and the Italian had both genny and main up.
 
I'm glad someone else is a bit confused. I had a near miss yesterday cruising during Burnham week.

I was on port tack with a keelboat coming up behind on the same tack. Okay - he was overtaking boat and I was stand on, but we were getting close to the bank. Also we weren't overlapped at all - at least not to start with.

I assumed he would tack behind me. He didn't and came up alongside so I suppose I was now windward boat and theoretically he had right of way, but he shouted - 'we want to go that way' - indicating he would tack. Okay I thought, he still means behind me so I stood on......but he didn't. He sailed on and just tacked straight across me.

Much cursing ensued as we tacked hard and just missed him. I still think as he was overtaking boat I had right of way until he got so close it was a complete moot point.

Of course I could have tacked at any time but the crew - as well as me - were convinced he was going to tack behind. Any suggestions?
 
The way you tell it does sound a bit naughty for him to tack across you. If he was the overtaking boat it's his problem until he is well clear of you, whichever side he passed. If he caused you to tack to avoid him that's not on.

Why didn't he just tack behind you? OK his beat would have been shorter and may have messed up his next tack, but passing through your dead wind wouldn't have improved his progress and awful lot either.

I had a similar experience the other day when I was on a starboard tack and a school boat motor-sailing held his course on my lee until just before we would have collided. I was thinking about luffing up to avoid him, but he moved just in time. I think the instructor was waiting to see if the pupil knew the situation.
We exchanged waves and carried on without any residual anger.

I've come to expect it strange decisions, so it doesn't rattle me.
 
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