Col Regs Questions

[Brian_B]

Where do row boats fit into the Col Regs?

While leaving Fowey recently under power at 5 knots were overtaken by a multi-manned row boat.
We kept a close watch to ensure their progress was not impeded but wondered who had the right of way, who was 'stand-on' vessel?

Also, if you encounter a row boat while under sail on a converging course, who had right of way?

As far as I'm concerned I steer well clear of anything with oars they're all devilishly difficult to control, so these questions are purely theoretical.

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[MarkV]

on the first point, overtaking vessel keeps clear I would think, but generally aren't boats under oars under power, so sailing vessels stand on.

In the real world, common sense dictates the action to be taken in the circumstances.

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[JimMcMillan]

So far as I understand the regs rowing boats are down the chain from sailboats and indeed all else and are therefore the stand on vessel.

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[halcyon]

At least two of the Gigs have gained two sails, should they have to carry a motoring cone?


Brian

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[Brian_B]

Mark,

If they ship oars are they still under power?

BB

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[Brian_B]

Jim, I'd probably agree but as sail and row boats have been around for some time I thought there might be a definitive answer.
Maybe I'll ask the MCA.

BB

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[Brian_B]

Brian

Didn't the Greeks invent that?
I'll check in the kebab shop tonight!

Brian

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[MarkV]

Wouldn't that make them adrift and therefore Not Under Command?

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[bedouin]

Which Rule would that be Jim?

I'm afraid there is nothing in Colregs to distinguish between a rowing boat and any other "Power Driven Vessel".

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[Trevor_swfyc]

Brian,

As you were under engine clearly you were the give way vessel and were right to keep a close watch to ensure you did not impede the row boat.
This may be a load of rowlocks but i'm sure its right.
In the same way if a sailing boat catches me up and its sailing and i'm motoring my yacht then I must move clear so as not to impede the sailing yacht. This does not entitle the yacht to hit me as if a collision is clearly imminent then the stand on vessel must also take action to avoid a collision.
Clearly you may not have heard the rowing boat over your engine and if this had been the case the rowing boat cannot slam into the back of you and totally blame you.
Trevor

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[Skyva_2]

I don't think it matters if it's rowing, sailing or motoring, the overtaking boat keeps clear:


Rule 13
Overtaking
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

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[Evadne]

I believe you are mistaken, the overtaking vessel is always the give-way vessel until she is clear and has completed the overtaking maneuvre. This is one of the oldest chestnuts in the RYA syllabus, a sailing boat approaching a motor boat from astern.

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[MedMan]

The only place where they are actually mentioned is in:

Part C - Lights and Shapes
Rule 25 Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars

"A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision."

There is no mention of Vessels Under Oars in Rule 18: Responsibilities Between Vessels. However, what is certain, is that a Vessel Under Oars in not a power driven vessel for that is clearly defined as follows:

Rule 3: General Definitions

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

(b) The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.


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[Brian_B]

So, we've deduced that the row boat is overtaking so it must keep clear.

But how about a sail boat and a row boat on a converging course. Who has right of way?

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[bedouin]

To be pedantic - an oar in a rowlock is a machine (ask an engineer). So in accurate english a vessel being rowed is being propelled by machinery.

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[JimMcMillan]

Interesting question,but ever since I was a boy(long time ago) when I had a rowing boat which was also a powerboat(outboard) and sailboat(lugsail) notwithstanding harbours, restricted room etc.,it was drummed into me as power to sail, sail to rowing. A rowboat being the least able(?) to get out the road. This was further reinforced some years ago by Yachtmaster Examiner when I finally sat my ticket. Maybe it is an unwritten rule passed down by old salts!

Jim

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[ubuysa]

Yes, but.......

Rule 2b: "In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, {my italics} which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger."

A multi-manned rowboat is limited in her ability to get out of your way quickly, so even though she is overtaking you Rule 2b requires you to be ready to take avoiding action if necessary. IMHO of course......

Tony C.

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[bedouin]

I agree with the principle - but you won't find it in Colregs anywhere (though I suppose it may be caught by the "usual practice of seamen" bit).

I gather that this can become a bit of an issue on rivers and inland waterways (where of course Colregs don't apply). When the rowing boat involved is an Eight going at 10 kts it is less obvious that a sailing dinghy should give way!

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[Skyva_2]

I'm not sure I agree with the principle; a regular local situation is an Optimist under training on the Thames, with very little wind, and the local rowing club bearing down at 5 knots on both banks, with no one looking forward.

The safety boat is in 'continuous communication' with the rowers, who also have a powered coaching boat.

We would dearly love a definitive ruling! I seem to recall that CEVNI requires the rower to give way, but that may be wishful thinking. And in general Colregs do apply on inland waterways.

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[bedouin]

That's what I meant - there is a big difference between me in a 32' yacht giving way to a 8' rubber duck, and an optimist / topper giving way to an Eight.

Colregs applies to "Waterways navigable by ocean-going vessels" which would exclude most of the inland waterways in UK apart from the tidal part of the major rivers

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