Col fixed this in 5 mins. How?

[jfm]

Ah, perhaps we have the same controls then Hurricane? Mine are microcommander too (by ZF) and my hotswapping works the same as yours. Pic below - same as yours?

In that case, I do believe your engines will auto synch when the levers are within a couple of degrees of each other and when you are above 1200rpm or so. I think there is a green LED light indicating they arte synched, isn't there, or am I thinking back to Volvo Penta controls?

And this auto synching is a different thing from one-lever mode.

BTW, when driving from one helm on one lever (my preferred mode, obviously), I haven't figured out how to hot-swap on a one-lever basis. When hotswapping I've always had to use 2-lever operation at the station I hot swap to. Have you found a trick to overcome this?

My Cats also allow cranking without starting by pressing the start and stop buttons in the e/room. Irrelevant in my case for seawater pumps because they are rubber impeller jobs, but handy to bleed the fuel after a filter change (bearing in mind Cat c32 isn't common rail so you need to get airless fuel to every cylinder head pump, not just to the rail)

 

[prv]

I have another function whereby both engines can run off one engine's ECU, in the event of failure of one ECU. I can choose which of the two ECUs drives both engines. The working ECU reads the inputs from its own engine but sends its outputs to the fuel systems of both engines.

Now that's clever!

Pete

 

[superheat6k]

Was this achieved with my laser Tacho ?

 

[Elessar]

Was this achieved with my laser Tacho ?

It never lit up Trev despite a new battery. It would have found the fault when I calibrated the noland if it had worked, as it was I calibrated the noland to the volvo tach.
I win the numpty award for not spotting that the upper and lower tachos didnt agree either.

 

[RogerRat]

Well - there's a thing!!
You are probably correct
I've always thought that I was synchronising the engines by controlling from one lever - I'll have a look sometime - the button does say "sync" but that might just because it is a standard micro commander.

Any YES - hot swapping - there is a little LED on the micro commander but it is easy to miss seeing it is off when it should be on.

Mike, when you're on one lever, your engines are in sync.

Like you, I can sync manually or one lever. I've not tried a hot fly switch on one lever yet but it should work the same really as all your changing is the active station.

RR

 

[RogerRat]

Port engine using 10% more fuel, more lazy at the top end and leaving more soot on the transom.

He fixed it en route to seeing the lancaster at lee on solent last night. He didn't need his overalls.

What did he do?

Well done Col, always makes it look easy don' he? Did he tell you how to sync the engines manually?

It's very simple when you know how, more obvious on a twin engined prop plane but works exactly the same.:encouragement:

RR

 

[RogerRat]

took one of Roger R's cushions out of the air inlet on the port side ?

Oi, they're not mine!



RR

 

[Hurricane]

BTW, when driving from one helm on one lever (my preferred mode, obviously), I haven't figured out how to hot-swap on a one-lever basis. When hotswapping I've always had to use 2-lever operation at the station I hot swap to. Have you found a trick to overcome this?

Yep I've done it several times
It took a while to understand it but it works if you set EXACTLY the same configuration on the new position as the old
e.g. if you have the port lever on the FB running the system at (say) 70% of the way up
When you take over from the lower helm position, you must start with both levers in the neutral position and move just the port one to 70% within 2 secs of pushing the command button.

Though, its been a while since I've done this and I may have it wrong.
Like you we boat in the Med - we only need to go below very rarely!!!

 

[Hurricane]

Oi, they're not mine!

View attachment 43018

RR

Are you sure, Roger

 

[superheat6k]

It never lit up Trev despite a new battery. It would have found the fault when I calibrated the noland if it had worked, as it was I calibrated the noland to the volvo tach.
I win the numpty award for not spotting that the upper and lower tachos didnt agree either.

It was only a few quid from China. Did you get the Noland set up OK ?

 

[jfm]

Yep I've done it several times
It took a while to understand it but it works if you set EXACTLY the same configuration on the new position as the old
e.g. if you have the port lever on the FB running the system at (say) 70% of the way up
When you take over from the lower helm position, you must start with both levers in the neutral position and move just the port one to 70% within 2 secs of pushing the command button.

Though, its been a while since I've done this and I may have it wrong.
Like you we boat in the Med - we only need to go below very rarely!!!

ok thanks. i'll give it a go!

 

[RogerRat]

Are you sure, Roger

Oh sh!t, you caught me smuggling cushions red handed.

 

[MapisM]

I've just seen this debate, didn't expect that single lever usage (or autosync anyway, regardless of whether with both or one lever) was so popular.
I mentioned its drawbacks in another thread not long ago, you can find that post here, in case anyone wish to have a look...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-Acert-jumps-to-neutral&p=4673831#post4673831

 

[Hurricane]

I've just seen this debate, didn't expect that single lever usage (or autosync anyway, regardless of whether with both or one lever) was so popular.
I mentioned its drawbacks in another thread not long ago, you can find that post here, in case anyone wish to have a look...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-Acert-jumps-to-neutral&p=4673831#post4673831

I don't understand your point
If JFM is correct (and I suspect he is) we don't really have any control over rpm synching anyway.
We put our throttle levers in approximately the same position and the electronics sync the engines - your post on the other thread is probably correct in how the electronics achieves the result.
But one-lever operation seems to me to be just an easy way of putting both the levers at about the same position.
And I'd argue even further - it is a very simple way to get both engines to increase or decrease RPM to your desired setting.
For example when planing, I like to set the RPM for both engines to 2020 (works for me)
It is much easier to do using one-lever operation that two levers when they are probably rpm synching anyway.

 

[MapisM]

If JFM is correct (and I suspect he is) we don't really have any control over rpm synching anyway.
...
It is much easier to do using one-lever operation that two levers when they are probably rpm synching anyway.

Good point. Actually I wasn't aware of throttles which activate the electronic synchronization regardless of the helmsman desire, just because both levers are (almost) aligned.
Are you sure that this feature can't be disabled? In the electronic throttles I've tried so far, sync had to be selected.

I agree that if using both levers the genius inside the throttles takes over regardless of your wish, you can as well use it with a single lever - but that wasn't my point...

 

[jfm]

I've just seen this debate, didn't expect that single lever usage (or autosync anyway, regardless of whether with both or one lever) was so popular.
I mentioned its drawbacks in another thread not long ago, you can find that post here, in case anyone wish to have a look...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-Acert-jumps-to-neutral&p=4673831#post4673831

MapisM your point there is bolx I'm afraid. Synching doesn't create any hunting and even without synching, the things hunt. That's the only way they can work.

In an electronic diesel the throttle lever position turns a potentiometer that causes a value to be entered into the ECU as a target rpm. The ECU then constantly adjusts fuel input to achieve that rpm as closely as it can. Because the work done (meant in the strict sense) each second to maintain a constant rpm changes due to waves and other factors, the rpm constantly hunts. Each time the bow pushes up even a small wave, the rpm drops by say 20 and the ECU sees that drop so it squirts a teardrop of extra fuel into the cylinders. If the rpm goes 20 above target it squirts less fuel. If you watch the electronic rpm read out in undamped mode you can see this +/- 20rpm happening all the time. And this happens whether synched or not.

Now, if you select synching, all that happens is that the (say) starboard ECU takes its target rpm data value from the port ECU's data registry rather than from the starboard throttle stick position. If for example the port lever position means 1900rpm is demanded from port engine, all that happens when you are synched is that the 1900 data value is copied-and-pasted across into the registry for the starboard engine. That's all. Both engines then independently hunt for 1900rpm. You point is therefore totally wrong I'm afraid

Also a mechanically governed engine hunts. The position of thr throttle stick merely sets, mechanically, a required droop position for the governor weights. The governor then makes the engine hunt - inside the governor there is oscillation around the correct droop position for the centrifuge weights. If the boat encounters an uphill wave the rpm drops so the weights droop and that makes more fuel be injected until the weights have spun out too much, then less fuel is injected, and so on. That is hunting without synching.

 

[[2068]]

Possibly more than you ever wanted to know about injection pumps:

http://issuu.com/rswords/docs/bosch_ve_manual

I didn't realise I even had a mechanical governor...

.

 

[MapisM]

MapisM your point there is bolx I'm afraid. Synching doesn't create any hunting and even without synching, the things hunt. That's the only way they can work.

I don't disagree in principle, but the folk who first warned me about the sync cons (a couple of other mechanics afterwards confirmed me that) is a Cat engineer who takes care of training authorised service centers in IT, and he has been spot on with his suggestions in other occasions, also on more tricky topics, so I'd be surprised if he was telling porkies just for the sake of it.
According to him, the "slave" engine works in a (slightly, of course - not in an obviously perceivable measure) sub-optimized manner, when it has to hunt the rpm of the other engine rather than "just" match the throttle input.
He even told me that if you might achieve a lower (again, slightly) max speed it the sync is engaged, because the slave engine constantly tries to match the master engine, rather than just giving its full power.
Anyway, I''ll re-check the topic with him in the light of your comments the next time I'll hear him.
Luckily, it's no big deal for myself anyway, 'cause with my mechanical engines and analogue rev counters, I only have to trust my ears...

 

[Rocksteadee]

Using my ECU, higher brain function proportional, integral, derivative (PID) control system, one handed throttle operation is easily performed by hold both throttle controls together. When both engines are running monosycronasly and not out of phasing a light comes on, this light on my boat is situated approximately 2 inches forward of my crown, slightly lower if I am wearing a hat