Coded live aboard

[The Eighth]

Hi Guys,

I am planning on living aboard in the med on my UK flagged and coded Bavaria 50. I don't have to worry to much about making an income but every little helps. I'm planning on moving around a lot and have been looking into the legality of picking the odd charter up every now and again whilst on my travels. Has anyone had any experiences in doing so and how not to fall foul of local certification issues. I don't want to snick about running under the local radar, I would like to do it all above board. I have all the correct certification and insurance and so has the boat.

Any experiences would be welcome.. I was looking at Rubicon 3 and they manage it just fine, full time!

 

[Tranona]

The biggest problem you will encounter is dealing with local licencing. Not surprisingly most countries require local licence to operate in their territory. so you need to check with each country where you intend taking charters.

 

[chinita]

An even bigger problem will be 'dealing' with local charterers before they 'deal' with him.

Not necessarily in a physical sense but a dobbing in sense.

He can be perfectly legal and documented but those Aduanas can take an awful long time checking and, of course while they are checking, the boat does not move.

Happened to a friend of mine; scuttled out of Spain with his tail between his legs.

 

[Melody]

I believe (but you need to check) that there is a way of operating on a UK coded boat, if all charters are bought and paid for in the UK, and you are traveling between countries, doing, say 2 weeks in Spain, then 2 in France etc. You don't fall under any other country's jurisdiction then.

The problem will arise if you want to base yourself in another country for a season, in which case you will have to fulfill local requirements. Most EU countries will recognize coded vessels from another EU country but you will have to look into tax regulations.

 

[BartW]

one of the problems is VAT declaration,
since 2014, there is a new law inforced (from Europe) that for every boat charter in Europe,
you need to charge VAT, rate in the country where the charter starts / where the charter guests come onboard.
in France that rate is 9% iirc that's not a big deal, but the deal braker is the VAT declaration,
you either have to do that via a agent, or one of these offices that does this type of service,
all this hassle and the costs involved make chartering un interesting I think.

 

[AndrewB]

Forget it, The8th, just forget it. There are easier ways of making a living. Take a few of your Brit mates out and charge them somewhat over the odds, sure; but don't even think of making this a commercial proposition.

 

[charles_reed]

Forget it, The8th, just forget it. There are easier ways of making a living. Take a few of your Brit mates out and charge them somewhat over the odds, sure; but don't even think of making this a commercial proposition.

Hear the words of a wise man - enjoy yourself but don't try fly-chartering. Not only local authorities but local charterers will find ways to make life worse than uncomfortable.

 

[capnsensible]

Forget it, The8th, just forget it. There are easier ways of making a living. Take a few of your Brit mates out and charge them somewhat over the odds, sure; but don't even think of making this a commercial proposition.

It is possible and easy. A good friend of mine has lived well of the idea for the last 9 years based in the Windies. Advertises and gets customers from UK, never local. Keeps on the move all the time, picks up and drops off in several different Islands. Coded yacht. He is not the only one.

 

[chinita]

It is possible and easy. A good friend of mine has lived well of the idea for the last 9 years based in the Windies. Advertises and gets customers from UK, never local. Keeps on the move all the time, picks up and drops off in several different Islands. Coded yacht. He is not the only one.

But the OP wants 'to pick the odd charter up now and again'.

A bit different from your mate who must be very well organised and skilled to co-ordinate visitors from the UK around the chain of Caribbean islands. He must have a great business model to have survived nine years.

 

[capnsensible]

But the OP wants 'to pick the odd charter up now and again'.

A bit different from your mate who must be very well organised and skilled to co-ordinate visitors from the UK around the chain of Caribbean islands. He must have a great business model to have survived nine years.

Not at all. Just bimbles along and keeps under the radar.

Abiding by rules is kinda soo British. It really is not too difficult between charters to have a bit of time sat at anchor near free wifi to drum up some business. Plus regular contact with someone who will sort out a bunch of coding and insurance and flight details on your behalf and a billion other things. Like my wife does on his behalf and why I know it works!!!!

Repeat, we know people who do what the OP wants to do and with a bit of gogettem, its very doable.

But no doubt others who dont know will tell me Im wrong.......

 

[Melody]

It is possible and easy. A good friend of mine has lived well of the idea for the last 9 years based in the Windies. Advertises and gets customers from UK, never local. Keeps on the move all the time, picks up and drops off in several different Islands. Coded yacht. He is not the only one.

Not at all. Just bimbles along and keeps under the radar.

There are people doing this but for 'under the radar' read 'illegal'. I certainly don't think it's anything to be proud of. Of course it is possible to make money this way but you would be breaking the law. I assume your friend lives well partly because he is not paying any taxes, unlike legal operators. One consideration is that he could well find his insurance was invalidated if there was an accident and it was discovered he were chartering illegally. If you are considering this, remember there is always the chance you could get caught so you have to weigh up the consequences ... and also consider your conscience.

 

[chinita]

Pah! Rules are for the little people

Conscience? :disgust:

 

[capnsensible]

There are people doing this but for 'under the radar' read 'illegal'. I certainly don't think it's anything to be proud of. Of course it is possible to make money this way but you would be breaking the law. I assume your friend lives well partly because he is not paying any taxes, unlike legal operators. One consideration is that he could well find his insurance was invalidated if there was an accident and it was discovered he were chartering illegally. If you are considering this, remember there is always the chance you could get caught so you have to weigh up the consequences ... and also consider your conscience.

Well he is a very experienced bloke, sailed many trans Atlantis, ran a sailing school in Gibraltar, written a pilot guie for the Straits and for eight odd years lived aboard his fully coded and in date for everything yacht. These last years sailing up and down the Windies he has fully complied with local rules regarding length of stay, not taking local employment and clearing in and out as necessary.

If you want to know more, why not try sailsummerbreeze.cm. also gives you an opportunity to email him and discuss your concerns.

Also demonstrates to the OP that nothing is impossible with a bit of effort..........

 

[chinita]

Just looked at the website. Very nice.

Next time you speak to your mate, tell him how to spell Morocco. You may think me a pedant but to some, attention to detail is quite important - especially as you will be trusting your life at sea to them.

In which country do they pay personal/corporation taxes I wonder.

 

[capnsensible]

Just looked at the website. Very nice.

Next time you speak to your mate, tell him how to spell Morocco. You may think me a pedant but to some, attention to detail is quite important - especially as you will be trusting your life at sea to them.

In which country do they pay personal/corporation taxes I wonder.

Done that!

I do know the answer to his tax affairs, my wife worked for him for long enough.....but not the place here for discussion other than to say he is not some cowboy but an astute businessman who has for many years earns his living on the sea.

Was a crab though..........

 

[chinita]

Well, I can forgive him everything...........except the last bit :disgust:

 

[srm]

This happened long time ago now, and well before the UK commercial codes were implemented. A British live aboard with his Turkish wife were short of cash, so advertised sailing holidays + English language practice in a magazine in Turkey. They picked up their first clients, a Turkish family, and went to anchor in the bay. A local gullet just happened to ram them as it was heading out causing sufficient hull damage to prevent the charter continuing. An expensive exercise for the boat's owner as in addition to repairs he paid shore accomodation for his guests.

It seems some locals did not like having their income poached.