cockpit tent article £4K for a 28 footer

[niccapotamus]

Just read an article in one of the sailing magazines. They had had a fab (the design sounded great) CAD design cockpit tent made up by Tecsew but overall cost incl sprayhood was £4K for a 28 footer.

what was even more interesting was the fact that according to the article, this was a reasonable price, and also that most canvas/tent firms don't want to do one offs for older boats due to cost vs result.

We have an 1980's 30 footer which we'll put a proper cockpit cover on in the next few years but there is no way that 4K is acheivable - maybe 1500 to 2K i'd have thought, and even then it would be a luxury purchase.

ouch.

 

[ex-Gladys]

I had a quote recently for replacing the cover on the back of Gladys wheelhouse, which is about 5ft square, with a window, 2zips, and a couple of triangular pieces that go round the sides... £750... I'm currently seeking alternative quotes!

 

[prv]

The amount of work, and hence cost, to build a cockpit tent doesn't have much to do with the value of the boat it's to go on. Age makes no difference, and size makes less than you might think because most of the cost isn't in the materials. So yes, it's easy to get to the point where a professionally-made cover doesn't make economic sense in the context of a cheap old boat. That's not the cover makers' fault.

A sewing machine that will happily handle several layers of acrylic canvas is about £50 on eBay

Pete

 

[Tranona]

That is a good price, particularly bearing in mind that it included a new sprayhood. On its own (if your sprayhood can be adapted to take it) a canopy will be around £2.5k made to the standard of Tecsew. They have just made my sprayhood and tonneau cover for the cockpit and I can endorse the recommendation.

 

[jaybee63]

Both the Sprayhood and Cockpit enclosure had new frames and the package was designed from scratch. The Sprayhood includes extras such as a grab handle to the rear edge and a zipped roll up centre front window.
Without knocking any other company there are many differences between what companies supply.
Anyone who knows our product will know our rear grab handles are welded. All our canopies have zipped pockets and zipped track where it would be awkward to remove the hood.
Anyone who has had to remove a Sprayhood canvas from the frames will know the work involved in having to unbolt a grab bar, dismantle the frame and then slide the whole hood from the track. With us it's just a case of unzipping the pockets and the track.
A welded grab bar adds to the strength of the frame.

It's not just the extra cost of the zips. All our zips are double stitched on both sides. So when a Sprayhood has no zipped pockets its 2 rows of stitching, one for each pocket to close the pockets, the way we zip our pockets those 2 rows become 8 rows plus cost of zips. Same applies for zipped track.

We use Sunbrella plus as standard, most companies don't and will charge extra as its a dearer fabric.

We also include a zipped valise for stowing the enclosure, this is an extra with some companies. We don't use 3/4" stainless frames unless specifically asked to ours all start at 7/8" as standard with heavy duty frame fittings. All fittings will usually be quick release. All frames are 316 stainless, the 316 is important as is the fact we use "super mirror polished" 316 and the level of polishing adds to the cost.

We also include fitting. Fitting and upgrades on frame size and also for frame fittings are extra with most companies.
One of the reasons we have never exhibited at a boat show is that we don't compete where a client just wants prices for a product and walks from one stand to another asking for a price but not looking into what they get for their money.
The CAD design process we developed is a longer process, but it gives better design. Anyone who has expirienced this with us over the last7 years will know the difference it makes.

We developed this is house at great expense and lead the industry world wide in the field of CAD design.
I believe I will be correct in stating that all our Sprayhoods, Biminis and Cockpit enclosures designed over the last6 years have been developed with our 3D CAD process with clients being invoked in the design.

If anyone is interested, at the boatshow we have our work on the Bavaria lineup, sail and power, Hanse, Legend, Viko, a new Dufour model, certain models on the Beneteau and Jeanneau stand and a couple of the Beneteau Swift Trawlers.

John

www.tecsew.com

 

[V1701]

For those unwilling or unable to spend so much I can recommend the Habitent, new they're £445, second hand occasionally come up on ebay. Of course they don't fit or look as good as bespoke but they keep all the rain off, most of the wind off and can take more of a battering from the weather than you might think. Mine's been on the last few weeks including the horrible weather we had mid week and came off ebay for £220...

 

[Heckler]

Both the Sprayhood and Cockpit enclosure had new frames and the package was designed from scratch. The Sprayhood includes extras such as a grab handle to the rear edge and a zipped roll up centre front window.
Without knocking any other company there are many differences between what companies supply.
Anyone who knows our product will know our rear grab handles are welded. All our canopies have zipped pockets and zipped track where it would be awkward to remove the hood.
Anyone who has had to remove a Sprayhood canvas from the frames will know the work involved in having to unbolt a grab bar, dismantle the frame and then slide the whole hood from the track. With us it's just a case of unzipping the pockets and the track.
A welded grab bar adds to the strength of the frame.

It's not just the extra cost of the zips. All our zips are double stitched on both sides. So when a Sprayhood has no zipped pockets its 2 rows of stitching, one for each pocket to close the pockets, the way we zip our pockets those 2 rows become 8 rows plus cost of zips. Same applies for zipped track.

We use Sunbrella plus as standard, most companies don't and will charge extra as its a dearer fabric.

We also include a zipped valise for stowing the enclosure, this is an extra with some companies. We don't use 3/4" stainless frames unless specifically asked to ours all start at 7/8" as standard with heavy duty frame fittings. All fittings will usually be quick release. All frames are 316 stainless, the 316 is important as is the fact we use "super mirror polished" 316 and the level of polishing adds to the cost.

We also include fitting. Fitting and upgrades on frame size and also for frame fittings are extra with most companies.
One of the reasons we have never exhibited at a boat show is that we don't compete where a client just wants prices for a product and walks from one stand to another asking for a price but not looking into what they get for their money.
The CAD design process we developed is a longer process, but it gives better design. Anyone who has expirienced this with us over the last7 years will know the difference it makes.

We developed this is house at great expense and lead the industry world wide in the field of CAD design.
I believe I will be correct in stating that all our Sprayhoods, Biminis and Cockpit enclosures designed over the last6 years have been developed with our 3D CAD process with clients being invoked in the design.

If anyone is interested, at the boatshow we have our work on the Bavaria lineup, sail and power, Hanse, Legend, Viko, a new Dufour model, certain models on the Beneteau and Jeanneau stand and a couple of the Beneteau Swift Trawlers.

John

www.tecsew.com

A few years ago, 5 I think, I was in the market for a cockpit cover. Was at SIBs, did the trawl and am convinced I asked you for a quote! In Pwllheli at the time. A basic cockpit cover for a stock Bene 381, no only do spray hoods and covers together. I asked for just the cover, swmbo would put the zips in to connect to our existing sprayhood. You didnt want to play so went to the local man, JKA, he did a frame in highly polished 25mm 316 SS and made a bootiful one to our spec for £1200. Its still up. Had to do a couple of reinforcement patches this year, where it had rubbed against the frame corner but its still going strong after Bay of Biscay, 3mtr swells and 30 plus kts down the Portuguese coast, no UV damage. We sail with it up. So, to the OP, JKA Pwllheli is worth a call!
S
PS Reread you post and you say you havent displayed, I must have phoned you.

 

[jaybee63]

A few years ago, 5 I think, I was in the market for a cockpit cover. Was at SIBs, did the trawl and am convinced I asked you for a quote! In Pwllheli at the time. A basic cockpit cover for a stock Bene 381, no only do spray hoods and covers together. I asked for just the cover, swmbo would put the zips in to connect to our existing sprayhood. You didnt want to play so went to the local man, JKA, he did a frame in highly polished 25mm 316 SS and made a bootiful one to our spec for £1200. Its still up. Had to do a couple of reinforcement patches this year, where it had rubbed
against the frame corner but its still going strong after Bay of Biscay, 3mtr swells and 30 plus kts down the Portuguese coast, no UV damage. We sail with it up. So, to the OP, JKA Pwllheli is worth a call!
S
PS Reread you post and you say you havent displayed, I must have phoned you.

It can't have been at the boatshow as we have never exhibited.

However with you being so far away it would never be economical for us to do the work. We would have to travel to measure and then there would be a return trip for 2 staff to fit and due to the distance they would probably require overnight accomadtion and expenses. When you add in fuel and travel time you can see why we do not often work that far away. We do get down to Kent and the Ipswich area, Cardiff and Bristol occasionally, but the client pays a premium to cover some of the expenses.

We supply a lot of work on a self fit basis. However a Cockpit enclosure will be unique to the Sprayhood design its fitted to.
A cockpit enclosed will not fit a different design Sprayhood that the one it's been designed for. The Sprayhood could be higher, come further back or vary in other ways.

So we would be able to supply on a self fit basis a cockpit enclosure with the Sprayhood its been designed for, equally if the boat has the same design Sprayhood as a boat we have made one for, but if the hood is not the same, then it's a case of needing measuring and the fitting trips to the boat.

Hope this helps by way of explanation.

Regards

John
www.tecsew.com

 

[JClarkes]

Best thing to do is visit your local marina and walk around those who have had cockpit enclosures made. Write down the company names and see the difference between their work.

Personally I wouldve thought at minimum a 2 bar sprayhood and say a 2 bar cockpit enclosure would be between £3k-£4k for a top end job having doors, windows, pockets, winch covers/flaps, zips, detachable cockpit enclosure that folds into a sleeve on the back bar, proper 316 stainless frame not to mention the exact shape, width and every personalisation the customer wants.

 

[niccapotamus]

thanks - this thread wasn't meant to be any sort of dig at the tecsew product which as I said at the beginning looked and sounded great. And I'm not expecting an enclosure to be cheaper for an old boat (really its a reference to the size of the ass end of our boat which is somewhat slinkier and "sexier" than the modern fat bottomed ladies" (ergo a smaller enclosure). But just that £4 K is a big wedge (to me) and that i would have expected it to indicate a premium product (which is what John at tecsew is effectively saying) which wasn't expressly detailed in the article (competitively priced was the comment IIRC, rather than "value for money" which might have been more accurate)

yes we will be doing a survey I think as it sounds like a good idea when we finally come to having one done - I'm hoping that it'll be the tail end of next year but if it was to come to 4K that would mean another year (as long as our diesel stays happy!)

 

[doug748]

We supply a lot of work on a self fit basis....
John
www.tecsew.com

Thread drift alert.....

.......can you copy a sprayhood cover for self trimming and fitting?

 

[alahol2]

yes we will be doing a survey I think as it sounds like a good idea when we finally come to having one done - I'm hoping that it'll be the tail end of next year but if it was to come to 4K that would mean another year (as long as our diesel stays happy!)

Happened across this earlier when I was 'surfing'... http://www.mistweb.f9.co.uk/content/cpittent.html
Looked like a feasible alternative way of doing things.

 

[jaybee63]

thanks - this thread wasn't meant to be any sort of dig at the tecsew product which as I said at the beginning looked and sounded great. And I'm not expecting an enclosure to be cheaper for an old boat (really its a reference to the size of the ass end of our boat which is somewhat slinkier and "sexier" than the modern fat bottomed ladies" (ergo a smaller enclosure). But just that £4 K is a big wedge (to me) and that i would have expected it to indicate a premium product (which is what John at tecsew is effectively saying) which wasn't expressly detailed in the article (competitively priced was the comment IIRC, rather than "value for money" which might have been more accurate)

yes we will be doing a survey I think as it sounds like a good idea when we finally come to having one done - I'm hoping that it'll be the tail end of next year but if it was to come to 4K that would mean another year (as long as our diesel stays happy!)

No offence taken, I'm glad you posted as it opens up a discussion and information is never a bad thing. As mentioned I am not knocking anyone else's work but we all pitch ourselves differently in terms of spec and materials used.
We have now been trading in excess of 30 years and initially the majority of our work was on new boat contracts, something we still service.
However when we decided to actively pursue a share of the retail market we decided to spec our products along the same lines as we do with new boat contracts and not to dumb down the spec or materials.

John
www.tecsew.com

 

[jaybee63]

Thread drift alert.....

.......can you copy a sprayhood cover for self trimming and fitting?

We have cad patterns for most work we have produced over the last 10 years and so should be able to replicate the items.
For production Sprayhoods before this we probably still have a pattern.

Most work has been photographed in detail, I believe we now have over 8,000 photos on our website and this is by no means the whole of our database.

Besides the photos on our site we photograph in detail for self fitting purposes.
Many items we have patterns for were supplied as standard kit for the importers or builders, we supplied many companies no longer with us including Westerlys for about the last 10 years and Victoria yachts.

We would not use an old Sprayhood or cockpit enclosure as a pattern and always re measure if not one of ours originally for which we have a pattern. Most reputable companies are the same, I have heard many stories where the end result is a shambles and the client is told we copied your old canvas, it is exactly the same.

Old canvas stretches where under tension and shrinks back in areas not forming a 3d shape which can't be accurately laid out flat. Occasionally it works, most times it doesn't, best to re measure.

John
www.tecsew.com

 

[JumbleDuck]

I had a quote recently for replacing the cover on the back of Gladys wheelhouse, which is about 5ft square, with a window, 2zips, and a couple of triangular pieces that go round the sides... £750... I'm currently seeking alternative quotes!

My sailmaker's quote for a simple sailcover (basically a 12' x 4' bit of cloth, with a zip at one end and six clips on short lengths of webbing to hold the bottom closed) was £300

 

[jaybee63]

Just to give an idea of the CAD design process, I am posting CAd shots of the project that was featured in the magazine. We generate these for all our Sprayhoods, Cockpit enclosures and Biminis.
We actually produce the CNC files for cutting the canvas and bending the frames from the CAD model. The model is not an artits impression, but in fact an accurate model used for manufacture. We dont produce the item until the design is signed off with the customer and as such window placement, zips and overall design can be tweaked if required.

However this is rare, the advantage of being able to spin the model round on a monitor is that we can be pretty sure of getting the best design that meets the clients brief and yet works and keeps the lines of the boat as far as possible.

Due to the time it takes, its a longer process than manual methods, we only produce the CAD work on a firm order.

Some of the shots show the previous design Sprayhood compared to the new. There were more shots taken than I am uploading, some would show for example how we could improve the Sprayhood coverage by moving the main-sheet attachment on the boom further aft.

 

[maby]

Tecsew produce an excellent product and, while there will be cheaper around if you search hard enough, I would be suspicious of the quality. The complexity of the solution is relatively independent of size, so you can't read too much into the numbers.

If you are only looking for something to keep the sun and light showers off in the summer, then there are far cheaper options like the Habitent. For our previous boat we ran up a simple boom tent on the sewing machine using a moderate weight canvas. But without the steel frame, it will not have the strength to stay up throughout the winter in proper storms.