cockpit drain valves stuck open

[oldmanofthehills]

In those far off pre-Covid times when having friends on board was a normal thing we found that with more than 10 visitors closing the cockpit drains prevented wet feet. It also drained the gin stock!

My LM27 advises no more than 9 in cockpit as single centre line drain has normal water level only about 50mm below cockpit floor and 40mm below lip to engine bay. I leave drains open on moorings and open for bad seas, and have never had more than 5 aboard in harbour so never needed to shut them. Somedays I worry but I have not heard LMs sinking from this

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

It's tempting to wonder whether seacocks are necessary at all on cockpit drains.

A friend just modified his boat so that the cockpit drains straight out of the transom and glassed up the seacock apertures. It was made worse by the seacocks being inside the cabin lockers, meaning that in the case of a failure, the cabin would fill.

I might have been tempted to put a simple non-return flap/valve in to stop surges from coming in, although he didn't. Previously, the drains were designed to run via diagonal pipes by design. He used much larger bores that seacocks allowed. His concerns were about allowing the drains to cope with the cockpit being swamped, which the "domestic" set up, I guess designed for day sailing, didn't.

I'm guessing the only reason the valves are there is because plastic pipes can harden, loosen or be bumped, if not crack, allowing replacement while in the water. Lead with no valves sounds fine in a metal boat that doesn't move much, but in a GRP one? The idea would make me nervous.

What I don't care for are the narrow right angled seacocks. A bugger for being blocked by leaves and other detritus and only cleared from access from under. Likewise, pipe sags again collecting sand/grit etc due to the way they often often run.

If the idea above works, I'll be tempted to do the same.

 

[Poignard]

A friend just modified his boat so that the cockpit drains straight out of the transom and glassed up the seacock apertures. It was made worse by the seacocks being inside the cabin lockers, meaning that in the case of a failure, the cabin would fill.

I might have been tempted to put a simple non-return flap/valve in to stop surges from coming in, although he didn't. Previously, the drains were designed to run via diagonal pipes while heeling. He used much larger bores that seacocks allowed. His concerns were about allowing the drains to cope with the cockpit being swamped, which the "domestic" set up, I guess designed for day sailing, didn't.

I'm guessing the only reason the valves are there is because plastic pipes can harden, loosen or be bumped, if not crack, allowing replacement while in the water. Lead with no valves sounds fine in a metal boat that doesn't move much, but in a GRP one? The idea would make me nervous.

What I don't care for are the narrow right angled seacocks. A bugger for being blocked by leaves and other detritus and only cleared from access from under. Likewise, pipe sags again collecting sand/grit etc due to the way they often often run.

If the idea above works, I'll be tempted to do the same.

That all makes sense.

My thinking was that it seems illogical to go to the trouble of fitting seacocks to guard against the failure of hoses that, if they were properly fitted and inspected from time to time, would not fail.

This thought occurred to me later than it should have done! After I had just spent £211 fitting two new Blakes 1-1/2" seacocks to my cockpit drains, I asked myself "Why am I doing this?"

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Always the way, isn't it? Hence the value of sharing experiences for others benefit at least.

We get caught in the habit of 'always doing things as they have always been done', often adopting practises that belong back in wooden boat building days, and not thinking laterally to really fix them.

It was those open transom designs that started me thinking.

He made simple oval moulds out of wood, I'm guessing around 4" x 3" and took a fibreglass form off them, which he then glassed into the cockpit/transom.

As much as I love Blakes Bling™, I'm guessing it cost less. Getting the old 'cocks off pretty much require destroying them with an angle grinder.

A further observation. Most drains on small boats that I've seen are at the rear of the cockpit and use two 90° turns and flexiple pipes to drain forward. The angles, of course, impeding flow. The lower acting to trap and back up detritus. It's also where, if you try and use a pipe or flexible wire to clear any blocks, it gets trapped (because of narrower bore than hose).

I think if I went to design one, I'd stipulate a cast-in first run, and then a single, perpendicular hose downwards to avoid that typical sag. It makes me think that bore size has been determined by cost of valves rather than practical necessity.

Funny thing is, because of the above, I experience my worst cockpit/engine bay flooding while on the hard and while cleaning having to blow a hosepipe *UP* the 'cocks several times to keep them open!

 

[Graham376]

Our cockpit drain discharges above the waterline and has been seized open for a few years, I will no doubt have to replace it at some future date when a surveyor spots it.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Honest question, if it's above the waterline, why would you need one? I would have thought a straight through fitting would be just fine. To stop surges?

A plug hole up top would then mean you could use the cockpit as a bath as well!

 

[LiftyK]

The release agent usually recommended is Plus Gas. You can get it online. It has helped me on numerous occasions - it certainly works.

 

[HTS]

Are the skin fittings above or below the waterline?
http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/boat_images/8064.jpg
IMHO designing the drains with regular skin fittings / hose below the W/L is a daft idea as hoses can chafe or perish and bilge pumps will flatten the batteries in no time if not on shore power. I appreciate the risk is low but why run it at all. If they are above the W/L its arguable whether you need seacocks at all and on the last boat (above W/L) I didnt bother but beefed up hoses by using exhaust hose so they are pretty much fit and and forget.
If they are below the waterline you just have to hope the hoses don't leak unless you want your cockpit to fill with rainwater! The seacock is only going to be of any use if someone is on the boat when the hose lets go and will probably be seized anyway unless its been exercised regularly!
On my latest boat the cockpit drains are below the W/L but the underwater element is made of solid fibreglass tube and glassed into the hull with substantial webs. It is also located where it is unlikely to be knocked so this I can happily live with.

valves are stuck OPEN.
They are well below the waterline on my boat and are stainless steel...at least on the outside. Plan now to soak them yet again in penetrant oil and see what happens. Boat is out of the water so time and safety margin on my side.

 

[Whiterose]

I was down at the boat today. Hustler 30 1971. I discovered the cockpit drain valves which are located on the hull side are stuck closed. I've done the easy bits with WD40 and they still will not move.

Would you be concerned about this? I'm thinking what's the worst that could happen.?

I have 2 soft plugs ready to bang into then should the hose give up for any reason but I'm struggling to convince myself that they are an issue. My last boat did not even have shutoff valves ...maybe I should remove them and forget about it.

All suggestions welcomed.

Where my boat is we have sudden VERY HEAVY rainstorms cockpit would fill in minutes and not being on boat all time leave drains always open.However I do give them a waggle now and again whilst I am on board?

 

[Poignard]

If you shut one seacock and leave the other slightly open then rainwater can drain away but in the unlikely event of a hose failing the water ingress will be slow and your boat will only sink slowly and, with any luck, someone will notice in good time and warn you or do something about it.

 

[Ammonite]

If you shut one seacock and leave the other slightly open then rainwater can drain away but in the unlikely event of a hose failing the water ingress will be slow and your boat will only sink slowly and, with any luck, someone will notice in good time and warn you or do something about it.

Or the partially open drain blocks with leaves etc and the cockpit overflows into the lockers

 

[pvb]

Fortunately, my cockpit drain will never get blocked by leaves.

 

[Poignard]

Or the partially open drain blocks with leaves etc and the cockpit overflows into the lockers

Well I can't argue with that except to say that I have always managed to avoid having a berth under a tree!

 

[Ammonite]

Well I can't argue with that except to say that I have always managed to avoid having a berth under a tree!

Spare a thought for those at Chichester ;-) Seriously though its always amazed me the cr@p that collects under the cockpit grate and thats on a swinging mooring in the middle of the harbour. Admittedly it doesnt happen often but Ive had one of the drains block and thats without any seacocks as they are above the W/L

 

[JumbleDuck]

It's tempting to wonder whether seacocks are necessary at all on cockpit drains.

I don't have them and if I did have them I would remove them. I see absolutely no point in having unnecessary points of potential failure in the system.

 

[awol]

I don't have them and if I did have them I would remove them. I see absolutely no point in having unnecessary points of potential failure in the system.

Mine, like many other's cockpits have drains that that exit underwater. This necessitates some kind of skin fitting and Blakes' 1.5" seem as good as any and better than many. What fitting would you suggest to replace them?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Mine, like many other's cockpits have drains that that exit underwater. This necessitates some kind of skin fitting and Blakes' 1.5" seem as good as any and better than many. What fitting would you suggest to replace them?

 

[awol]

Available in bronze? I don't fancy opening out the holes to take those .... and the cockpit would fill if certain gravitationally and follically challenged forumites were to come aboard without the Blakes' being closed.

 

[RupertW]

My last two boats (one Beneteau built in 1983 and one Jeanneau in 1999) have both had open sterns with so the cockpit floor just drains straight out the back which immediately felt safer for flooding and far far faster to clear (as we found in the first boat in 1993 when we were pooped off Salcombe and the cockpit filled to above the seats on the downside but cleared away in a few seconds).

If the boat does have cockpit drains then hopefully they are just above the waterline when the boat is not being sailed with a bunch of people in the cockpit in which case leaving them open seems to have only an upside.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Available in bronze? I don't fancy opening out the holes to take those .... and the cockpit would fill if certain gravitationally and follically challenged forumites were to come aboard without the Blakes' being closed.

Yes, available in a range of sizes and materials from ASAP. Like you, I have a fondness for bronze.

My Hunter 490 has a cockpit which extends about 3" below the waterline, so the drain is on the back face. With more than two adults in the cockpit it starts filling, so I carry one of those "wine bottle stopper" things to plug it while sailing. It's very important to remember to remove it when she is on her mooring.

The other issue is that the cockpit fills to 3" when she is on her trailer. I'm thinking of adding a floor level drain, which will have a valve of some sort for when she's afloat.