Coble rudder

[cbeeson]

Over in the Drascombe Association forum, we've been discussing the problem of getting a Dabber rudder (transom mounted) onto its bearings while bobbing around in open water, preferably without falling over the stern in the process.

The situation occurs when a Dabber is launched forward off a shelving beach, when the rudder can't be fitted until some depth is attained. It's been suggested that, since north east cobles are launched in the same way, with a similar rudder arrangement, there may be a solution there.

Apparently the coble has a rope or chain that guides the lower pintle into its bearing. I've been looking in vain for a picture of this arrangement; so I'd be grateful if someone could point me to one, or at least describe the arrangement.

Chris Beeson

 

[Peterduck]

The trick is to have the lower pintle extra-long, so that it is fitted first, and you're only trying to fit one hinge at a time. Trying to fit both together is a sure recipe for frustration, and spoils the entire trip.
Peter.

 

[DownWest]

Trad double enders in sweden and elsewhere have long lower pintles fixed at both ends, curved to follow the stern post (stem?) This allows the rudder to be pulled up high enough that the blade is above the keel line.
Seen pix, but can't remember where right now.
Andrew

I had the same prob with a small GRP dinghy, made a better rudder with kick-up blade. The original 'penny-on-a-stick' occasionally floated up off it's pintles and had to be attached with a string.

 

[Lakesailor]

The lower pintle seems to be both very long and above the waterline.

More pics on This Page

 

[DownWest]

Ah, I was confusing it with the Scaffie, which is double ended. Still nothing to stop an extra long pintle to allow it to be raised high enough but still be attached.
A

 

[monkey_trousers]

plenty cobles here; http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=1000

http://www.coble-keelboatsociety.org/

lots of variation though when it comes down to it, depends where the coble was built, its size and its use

 

[BrianH]

lots of variation though when it comes down to it, depends where the coble was built, its size and its use

Very true. I used to lay up at Clarkson's yard in Whitby (Gordon Clarkson, the proprietor, was my neighbour) in the early 1970s and they were one of three coble builders in the town. Each one was built by eye - no plans - and every one was different. Each boat-builder had scathing comments about the others and the seakeeping qualities of their craft.

Gordon Clarkson did not have complimentary things to say about the design in general but he built to order and inshore fishermen were conservative and traditionalists. He commented that since converting to engines and always being afloat in the harbour (in Whitby, that is) there was no need for the deep forefoot and rudder necessary for beach launching and retrieval, claiming the former induced broaching in following seas.

Looking through all my Frank Sutcliffe, the 19th century Whitby photographer, photos (site here), all the traditional cobles seem to have a gudgeon on the transome and not as the modern ones with a pintle.

 

[Lakesailor]

Those frocks would play havoc with his paint job!

 

[cbeeson]

Thanks folks - interesting pointers.

The Dabber has pintles on the rudder and the gudgeons on the transom. The lower pintle is longer, but the lower gudgeon is below the waterline. The problem lies in keeping the rudder reasonably steady while I'm trying to 'spear' the lower gudgeon. Always seems to take longest when I've just rowed off a lee shore!

Lots of fine pics of cobles, thanks; but the transom isn't really the coble's most beautiful feature, so they don't often get photographed from that end.

Maybe I'll have to wear waders!

 

[BrianH]

Those frocks would play havoc with his paint job!

- Sutcliffe's work was very contrived and many of the human subjects look posed - probably a necessity with the equipment and slow plates of the day.

No doubt those ladies and the boy wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near in normal circumstances.

Nevertheless, there are many classically beautiful photographs and they are all fascinating social records.

 

[DownWest]

Apart from frocks and paint... Looking at the drawing on the Drascombe site, might it not be possible to have gudgeons on both the rudder and transom? Then a loose stainless rod with top and bottom pins/nuts, treaded through but longer than the basic distance between the gudgeons. This would allow the rudder to be raised clear, but still be attached at top and bottom. There seems to be plenty of space from the top gudgeon to the tiller and also below the bottom gudgeon to allow for the longer rod. Does this make sense as written?
A

 

[Bobobolinsky]

The frocks are there to carry the boat to the water

 

[cbeeson]

DownWest, sorry, I've only just seen your response! Wanted to say thanks, because this looks like the germ of a way forward. I've discovered I can't make the lower (rudder-mounted) pintel any longer or it would come below the lower edge of the rudder and be vulnerable when the boat was beached. However, with gudgeons on rudder and transom, I can fix a rod in the lower transom gudgeon and effectively make an upward-facing pintel there. Thanks again!

Chris Beeson