Coastguard Again

[radio]

Just a point on signal strength, here in Guernsey we operate with 3 antenna sites, we regularly receive transmissions from Dover, Solent, Portland & Brixham in the old days, Falmouth, Milford Haven, Crossma, Crosscorcen, Cross Etel and on good days Shanon & Roslaire, Thames and have even had Yarmouth. On one day even had Dart IRB come through as if sat next to me, and yes everybody does over speak each other, the French being the worst however UK is fast catching them up now.

 

[ShinyShoe]

The comparison with road policing is spurious. Roads are an essential service used by almost everyone. No leisure boater needs to go to sea, and we're certainly a small sample of the population.

My reference to Road Traffic Incidents was entirely relevant it seems. I wasn't dialling 999 because I thought a broken down car might cause congestion rather that some 17 year old just passed his test in his dads over powered car with lifted experience might hit her. Or that in an attempt to get to an emergency call box she might try to cross the live carriageway.

It was the risk of death or injury to the individual I was concerned about.

The incident this morning was not that different.

But if a cruise liner ala Costa Concordia had made a call this morning would you have wanted coastie who didn't seem to realise the gravity of a vessel being capsized and unable to recover at the entrance to Chi Harbour might have. Perhaps all the training has concentrated on what to do if a major vessel is in distress and pleasure sailors should sort themselves.

If that s the strategy can we stop policing and ambulancing Friday nights in city centres. Also stop Fire Services for chip pan fires.

 

[RobbieW]

FFS you lot, it doesnt matter a damn whether yotties need radio checks, hand holding when going aground etc etc - I'd agree that mostly they shouldnt.

The situations described by the OP and one or two others recently have been casualty working, real emergency stuff. Are we really trying to say that someone on a cross channel ferry who needs a medivac is going to have to wait 12 months until the CG have their procedures sorted out ? Or you who have been out racing and got thumped by the boom, you can wait till the operators have learned how this all works properly ? I dont think so.

Pete, prv, was looking for a real action to take much earlier - ok, channelyacht has made some proposals and would appear to have good domain knowledge. Take the nub of those proposals, that the Fareham centre is not ready for live working yet, and write to the MAIB, maib@dft.gsi.gov.uk, copying the RYA, the MCA and your MP, https://www.writetothem.com/. Outline that the rollout of changes needs to cease until the operators can perform without hesitation and with confidence, until the operators can at least perform at that level lives are potentially at risk.

 

[chanelyacht]

[quote] Come on it is just a few calls on the VHF - the job is NOT difficult nor were the CG over worked 90% of the time - accepted sometimes in emergency but a lot of the time just on standby. You only have to listen to VHF traffic to realise that [/quote]

Really? You have access to the national airwave system then? You listen permanently to ChO and can hear the incidents coordinated by other means - the vulnerable or missing people searches, the polution incidents, the police evidence assistance, etc? No, of course not. You get to hear about 20% of what an ops room does, so on that you dismiss being told you are wrong?

Once you know the casualty area one could just transmit from the optimum aerial- or did one not get that far in their training

You're a nasty piece of work aren't you? You said the aerial told us where someone was - it doesn't. Yes, when you find them, of course we use the optimum aerial, but the finding bit isn't as easy as you think in all cases. Plus, again, you only hear the VHF traffic - you won't have heard the 90 minute mobile call a couple of years ago with a man in fog trapped on a sandbank, with a rising tide, and his son on his shoulders, who passed the phone to his son as the water reached his head. Oh, and before you say it, no, current mobile technology does NOT place the person accurately like you see on the TV.

So you have had non maritime staff for years-- & you are telling us ( & yes you are right it was good) how good the CG was. Proves non maritime staff is OK then.

Because non maritime staff were brought into a watch of experienced people, most with maritime experience, and over about 3 years they learnt to become good operators. What wasn't done was that all the experience went, leaving nothing but the inexperienced and non-maritime.

What a lot of old CG operators are concerned about is that the job is going to be done for less wages
demonstrates you were over paid - does it not?

The wages are higher in the new system, although the shift patterns will be causing a lot of new entrants to leave with stress before long. But, the pensions are less, the benefits are less, and the cost to the MCA is less because of no length of service. Even now, the low wages are a problem - why would someone stay in the CG for £25k and an incredible amount of management sh it when they can go and work in port ops, windfarm control or rig comms for double the money? That's why Aberdeen have no experienced staff left.

Another problem reported is the under staffing of old centres
Surely it makes sense to have just 2 centres where staff in an office can be swopped from area to area to cover major or a high load of incidents. So instead of , say Thames being understaffed & having a problem Whilst staff at Yarmouth might be twiddling their thumbs operators could swop about the areas & could drop in on the incident. Of course it would not be Thames & Yarmouth ( just an example but could be anywhere)but an operator on one desk & an operator on another

Yes - apart from the 2 centres bit. The old system relied on "paired" stations - so, for example, Portland could take Solent's load during times of once centre being busy. That worked - and all staff supported extending this nationally in the new system. The problem is local knowledge and familiarity - an idea once championed by HMCG management, but then dismissed when it became a bit difficult. Interestingly, air traffic controllers (who operate above 5000ft and don't need topographical knowledge) are licensed per sector / area, and can't swap onto others - but seemingly that doesn't matter on the ground.

I also understand that a crisis centre will be at Dover. If the old staff from the Dover CG are re employed than the experience will be there. However, if the old staff just take the redundancy & run so be it

No, there isn't a "crisis centre". There's an IT backup facility at Dover, with a couple of spare desks. In the event of the MOC going offline, staff will go from Fareham to Dover to man the backup centre (at least 2 hours) and then it will operate a skeleton. As for "taking redundancy and running" that hasn't happened either - many have no choice but to leave given the change in shifts being unworkable for people with families, or have gone out to the coastal staff to avoid the management bullying that has become standard in ops rooms, or who were approaching retirement anyway - because the MCA have had an ignored demographic time bomb for years.

That being said, ( & perhaps my response is a bit hard but I am trying to make a point) I have needed the coastguard on several occasions over the years - & yes the response was first class & professional
But i do expect that in a short while- when the problems come to light & are sorted- it will be just as good

I haven't got a problem with you being hard - and I'm glad you had a good and professional response. But please do also give me some credence when I say, from the inside (until very recently), that the "sorting out" you (and all of us) hope for will be far longer than a couple of years, and the bodged transition, failed systems and downright lies from management are working against this, and for those of us that do still care passionately about the service, having a senior manager who's response to being shown flaws in the plan wasn't to look again, but was to say "there will be casualties", goes against the grain of everything so many of us worked so hard for years to deliver.

I'm not even against the planned end result, but there are better and safer ways of delivering it. I worked for National Air Traffic for a period - and the bigger changes they brought in were done in a safe, planned, well managed and sympathetic fashion. The CGs, on the other hand, were brought in by a former Chief Coastguard who had never handled multiple incidents, and who's response to an alternative plan from those at the front was that "he'd rather staff the place with people from Tescos who knew no better, than gobby staff who could challenge him".

The current issues at the MOC aren't fair on the new entrants (a number of whom have left), the experienced staff having to pick it up, or the public in distress needing a good service.

 

[FishyInverness]

"he'd rather staff the place with people from Tescos who knew no better, than gobby staff who could challenge him".

It sounds like he's getting what he wants then....

From the tone of your mail, this implies there might be vacancies for MRCC Aberdeen, is this the case?

 

[chanelyacht]

It sounds like he's getting what he wants then....

From the tone of your mail, this implies there might be vacancies for MRCC Aberdeen, is this the case?

They did a recruitment trawl in June I think, not sure of the response or whether it will trigger another one.

 

[lustyd]

In a few idle moments I have been monitoring channels 16 and 67. Oh dear oh dear ! I hope the training of the new staff progresses with some urgency.
A small passenger vessel called with a casualty and it seemed the coastguard was mainly interested in the mmsi no of the vessel rather than organising the evacuation.
Plus a small yacht aground on Ryde sands, on a falling tide, was told to maintain their position! She was aground she wasn't going anywhere until the flood tide started.
Not a good sign.

j

I've heard identical conversations in previous years so this is not a new problem, and may not even be a problem. If there has been a DSC alert then the CG needs to determine if the mayday matches it or if there are two problems. If a yacht is aground on Ryde sands on a falling tide were you expecting the girl in fareham to come out with a shovel? I'd have thought tell them to wait and then organise something on the rising tide. Having heard several "stuck on the sand" calls over the years I've never heard them take action immediately.