Coastguard Again

[Daydream believer]

Because the people who set up the arrangements thought they were building a call-centre, with rows of operators in headsets each handling their own separate telephone call. As an aside, that's presumably why I heard "Solent" overspeak their own casualty's reply with a different voice handling an unrelated matter - a model designed for telephones being applied to a shared radio channel.

In the past i have heard Thames & Dover over speak each other so that was not unusual. I was usually in the middle of the 2 & not the "casualty". Did the casualties hear the over speak?. Surely that is solved in some situations by using aerials in range of the "casualty" but out of range of the other "casualty".
Once again, just a learning curve.
As for area knowledge - this can be improved over time by assigning the same group of operators to a particular area , albeit a much bigger area.

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes - a big one on the wall and a chart table like you'd find on a ship's bridge, with chart drawers under it.

So not much better than a chart plotter really!!!

 

[prv]

Did the casualties hear the over speak?

Well, no, they were transmitting, weren't they?

"Solent" asked the casualty for some information, the casualty started to reply, and then "Solent" (with a different voice) suddenly stomped all over them with a routine announcement, apparently oblivious to the situation. The first "Solent" then had to ask the casualty to say it all over again.

I'm not suggesting this specifically is a massive problem per se, but it certainly illustrates the change from a team of people in a room with Ch16 on the speaker and everyone has a shared understanding of the situation, to a row of battery hens operating independently.

Pete

 

[viago]

The RYA wouldn't squeak a word against the closure programme when it was announced, (neither did the RNLI), so they won't be much use. Our representatives my arse.

it's not often i agree with you but on this i do.

i suspect they are too busy prosecuting sailors who choose to go out in a chop and don't even ask for their interference.

 

[ShinyShoe]

Just sat down to defend them.

But then there is a current incident that is concerning me.

But the muppets on the water don't help... ...all I will say is you were taught Mayday Relay for a reason. OK the other thing I will say is if you have a safety incident and are told to move to 67 I would say you are entirely within your rights to request to stay on 16 :-D

In terms of reporting etc, is the MAIB not the body concerns about specific incidents should be reported to? They have independence and a remit to take reports from anyone...

 

[savageseadog]

All this concern about CG cover seems completely over the top to me. If we can't go to sea without having our hands held and the assistance continuous radio checks we should perhaps stay at home. We have no right to expect the authorities to act as nannies, it costs money anyway. Self reliance and care over what we do and when we do it would be a better substitute.

 

[sailorman]

All this concern about CG cover seems completely over the top to me. If we can't go to sea without having our hands held and the assistance continuous radio checks we should perhaps stay at home. We have no right to expect the authorities to act as nannies, it costs money anyway. Self reliance and care over what we do and when we do it would be a better substitute.

And where do most learn boating these daze, so called sailing skools ( a weeks floating holiday with a ticket at the end)

 

[Birdseye]

In a few idle moments I have been monitoring channels 16 and 67. Oh dear oh dear ! I hope the training of the new staff progresses with some urgency.


j

It will progress and will get up to scratch despite the whines of the union and staff saying " it was better in my day". Major change always brings disruption but you cant just leave things to potter on in the same old way.

 

[ShinyShoe]

All this concern about CG cover seems completely over the top to me. If we can't go to sea without having our hands held and the assistance continuous radio checks we should perhaps stay at home. We have no right to expect the authorities to act as nannies, it costs money anyway. Self reliance and care over what we do and when we do it would be a better substitute.

Not the least interested in RCing with CG. I can see arguments for and against passage reporting but none of the concern posted here has been about routine traffic handling. Its about emergency handling.

So the other week I was doing 70 in the outside lane on the A1(M). the traffic suddenly slowed ahead and a vehicle got stranded on the centre reserve. Single driver out if car as I passed but no sign of her on phone. Not safe for me to stop.

I dial 999 while driving (hands free) and pass police the approx location I.e. between Junction X and Y Northbound. appeared to be 1 female occupant, Dark blue estate car. Vehicle partially on centre reserve and carriageway.

Call seemed not disimillar to what happens in the Solent... "Solent CG are you aware if yacht XYZ aground etc.". Both may be evolving incidents. Both may result in multiple reports via multiple routes.. Afloat VHF, 999, Direct call on mobile to CG landline, call to sea start etc. motorway 999, 101, highways camera, highways patrol, call to AA etc. Initially a simple incident but potential to worsen. Potential to have multiple incidents in the same area.

So I think its all coverable by a call centre just like Police, Highways, Ambulance etc use. BUT the way calls are being handled is the concern...

Call on 16 with safety info and be moved to 67 and a different operator takes it so you need to repeat it all. That's like my 999 call to police the other week being rerouted to the 101 team after I've given all the info to 999. Not only duplicating effort and risking that I muss info out the second time but showing a lack of understanding of the severity of the incident and its potential to be life threatening.

Lack of awareness of what's going on.

Very slow to transmit relays so delaying others in area from offering assistance.

Its not the model but I'm guessing these staff have no real world experience so the significance of the incident means nothing to them...

 

[Biggles Wader]

It will progress and will get up to scratch despite the whines of the union and staff saying " it was better in my day". Major change always brings disruption but you cant just leave things to potter on in the same old way.

Alternatively-----If it works,dont fix it.
However,being as how the Lounge is shut,it does provide a platform to blame to unions and whining staff.Can we say the BBC is at fault here too?Or would that just be too reactionary even for here?

 

[penfold]

I can relate to that idea. A potential problem is any litigative person getting involved - probably after the event. In dire circumstances - without any clear leadership, I have deep sympathy with someone who has a fair clue about the situation getting involved- and co-ordinating if need be.
It is unfortunately no longer the done thing...
But as pointed out, might come to the fore again?

I'm at a loss as to how complying with your legal obligations under SOLAS could possibly result in litigation, at least that cannot be dismissed as vexatious.

 

[capnsensible]

I'm at a loss as to how complying with your legal obligations under SOLAS could possibly result in litigation, at least that cannot be dismissed as vexatious.

I have been fortunate enough to sail along the coasts of many countries. I can say without doubt, the UK has the best coastguard of anywhere I have ever been. The moaners may wish to consider the alternatives......

 

[chanelyacht]

I cannot agree
The CG will know what area the call came from by monitoring that aerial. So what is the difference someone in , say, Thames looking at a chart & someone in fareham selecting tha same chart
Neither am I convinced that the CG in each area is actually that difficult. It is just a job after all.
I bet any competent person could pick the job up in a couple of months. Forumites that say they cannot would be the sort that could not do so themselves so base their remarks on their own ability.
Lots of people go about saying all sorts of things cannot be done but anything can be overcome if the attitude to suceed is there in the first place.
It is all an attitude of mind. Will it to work & it will

"You can pick it up in a couple of months"

Sorry, I missed how many years SAR experience you have?

The location of the casualty is NOT clearly indicated by which aerial. The MCA got rid of direction finding a few years back, again despite being told and proved that it was necessary.

If you put out a call south of Portland Bill for example, on a high pressure day I can the signal strength will show as equal on Berry Head, Beer, Portland, St Albans, Hengistbury, Nine Barrow Down, Needles and probably Ventnor aerials. That's around 100 miles of coastline for your casualty.

I agree with the concept of "will it to work", that's how we've coped with the staff shortages and non-maritime staff for years. But sadly now, the new systems going in are actually preventing team working and are the root cause of half the problems.

 

[chanelyacht]

It will progress and will get up to scratch despite the whines of the union and staff saying " it was better in my day". Major change always brings disruption but you cant just leave things to potter on in the same old way.

None of us in the service said the status quo was sustainable - but when you have a large number of well thought out options put forward from around the coast, all of which were rejected by the project leaders (someone who had never run two incidents in their lives, and a bean counter) without any reason, you have to wonder the motivation for the project.

Of course, the fact that older, more expensive staff have largely all gone to be replaced by inexperienced, cheaper staff on less good employment contracts has nothing to do with it...

 

[prv]

All this concern about CG cover seems completely over the top to me. If we can't go to sea without having our hands held and the assistance continuous radio checks we should perhaps stay at home. We have no right to expect the authorities to act as nannies, it costs money anyway. Self reliance and care over what we do and when we do it would be a better substitute.

There's certainly some truth in that. After all, one-button access to a single competent and reassuring all-seeing voice dispensing advice and practical assistance does not exist in the rest of our lives[1]. Why should it, of all places, at sea?

Given that we had it, it still seems a shame to break it though.

Pete
[1] Except perhaps for the god-botherers

 

[savageseadog]

The comparison with road policing is spurious. Roads are an essential service used by almost everyone. No leisure boater needs to go to sea, and we're certainly a small sample of the population.

 

[Plevier]

In terms of reporting etc, is the MAIB not the body concerns about specific incidents should be reported to? They have independence and a remit to take reports from anyone...

You could start with CHIRP https://www.chirp.co.uk/information-about.asp
CHIRP does very good work in aviation, doesn't seem as well known in marine world.

 

[JumbleDuck]

All this concern about CG cover seems completely over the top to me. If we can't go to sea without having our hands held and the assistance continuous radio checks we should perhaps stay at home. We have no right to expect the authorities to act as nannies, it costs money anyway. Self reliance and care over what we do and when we do it would be a better substitute.

Based solely on what I have read here, it seems that sailors on the south coast of England have become used to a very high level of support form the CG: radio checks, passage plans, help every time they go on a sandbank on a rising tide and so on. The rest of the country seems to be more self-sufficient, which is maybe something to be encouraged amongst our southern chums.

 

[Daydream believer]

"You can pick it up in a couple of months"

Sorry, I missed how many years SAR experience you have?

Come on it is just a few calls on the VHF - the job is NOT difficult nor were the CG over worked 90% of the time - accepted sometimes in emergency but a lot of the time just on standby. You only have to listen to VHF traffic to realise that

The location of the casualty is NOT clearly indicated by which aerial. The MCA got rid of direction finding a few years back, again despite being told and proved that it was necessary.



If you put out a call south of Portland Bill for example, on a high pressure day I can the signal strength will show as equal on Berry Head, Beer, Portland, St Albans, Hengistbury, Nine Barrow Down, Needles and probably Ventnor aerials. That's around 100 miles of coastline for your casualty.

Once you know the casualty area one could just transmit from the optimum aerial- or did one not get that far in their training

I agree with the concept of "will it to work", that's how we've coped with the staff shortages and non-maritime staff for years. But sadly now, the new systems going in are actually preventing team working and are the root cause of half the problems
So you have had non maritime staff for years-- & you are telling us ( & yes you are right it was good) how good the CG was. Proves non maritime staff is OK then.

What a lot of old CG operators are concerned about is that the job is going to be done for less wages
demonstrates you were over paid - does it not?

Another problem reported is the under staffing of old centres
Surely it makes sense to have just 2 centres where staff in an office can be swopped from area to area to cover major or a high load of incidents. So instead of , say Thames being understaffed & having a problem Whilst staff at Yarmouth might be twiddling their thumbs operators could swop about the areas & could drop in on the incident. Of course it would not be Thames & Yarmouth ( just an example but could be anywhere)but an operator on one desk & an operator on another

I also understand that a crisis centre will be at Dover. If the old staff from the Dover CG are re employed than the experience will be there. However, if the old staff just take the redundancy & run so be it

That being said, ( & perhaps my response is a bit hard but I am trying to make a point) I have needed the coastguard on several occasions over the years - & yes the response was first class & professional
But i do expect that in a short while- when the problems come to light & are sorted- it will be just as good

 

[capnsensible]

Based solely on what I have read here, it seems that sailors on the south coast of England have become used to a very high level of support form the CG: radio checks, passage plans, help every time they go on a sandbank on a rising tide and so on. The rest of the country seems to be more self-sufficient, which is maybe something to be encouraged amongst our southern chums.

Anyone who needs volume 3 of the Sight Reduction Tables is a Northerner......