Coastguard Again

[Daydream believer]

Don't tell me you're one of those morons who think Google Earth is a live view?

Pete

No i do not, but the point I was trying to project was that modern systems can be set up to find spots on the coast or offshore pretty quickly.
In my case the last 2 times I contacted the CG they found me on my AIS in seconds once they knew roughly where i was
i am not saying we should all use AIS, but if the operator can type in say " Brake sandbank" then it should be able to find it in a short time
Silly descriptions such as suggested earlier - just offshore by the end of the M5 - may be just as easy to find. In fact some local CG's might be stuck on that one ( just try asking some ladies for traffic directions) but a computer will get it in an instant

 

[Daydream believer]

Ooh, what's the story? Did you get rescued?

Mike.

What's more -not being real time- means the solicitor can refer to it any time he wants

 

[fireball]

but if the operator can type in say " Brake sandbank" then it should be able to find it in a short time
Silly descriptions such as suggested earlier - just offshore by the end of the M5 - may be just as easy to find. In fact some local CG's might be stuck on that one ( just try asking some ladies for traffic directions) but a computer will get it in an instant

The computer will only get it if the computer knows the name first - this is where local knowledge and topography comes in handy.
I can do a few google searches of names of places in the harbour where I sail and I don't get a workable hit quickly - and that's knowing what and where I'm looking.
Granted, not all CG staff are going to know all the names of the places that they cover, but between them they'll have a fair idea. Couple that with the call being heard by many staff rather than one and you immediately get better coverage.
Computers are fast - but not as fast as many human brains.

Of course, you could just load all that information into a CG database ... but that'll be expensive and it'll take a heck of a long time. Then what do you do when someone uses a position that the computer is not aware of?

Emergency call handling can mostly be done on script - but the skill comes in knowing what to do when it goes off script - and knowing quickly.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Sailing back to the South Coast, after a few weeks away across the channel, we noticed a very uncharacteristic amateurish response by CG to several situations on CH16.

We then returned to the boat and sailed off a week later to go along the south west coastline. Again we heard several communications by vessels to CG, a couple of them sounding very urgent and one a MayDay.

We were again hearing what seemed to be very amateurish and slow responses by young women representing the CG.

Thank goodness my alternators regulator didn't pack up, until motoring alongside Dartmouth pontoons at 23.00hrs !

Gas alarms going, batteries charging at very high current = engine had to be switched off double quick.

What would the results of a slow CG response have been if it had happened 10-15mins earlier?

A bit rocky just off Dartmouth entrance!

S.

 

[Searush]

Sailing back to the South Coast, after a few weeks away across the channel, we noticed a very uncharacteristic amateurish response by CG to several situations on CH16.

We then returned to the boat and sailed off a week later to go along the south west coastline. Again we heard several communications by vessels to CG, a couple of them sounding very urgent and one a MayDay.

We were again hearing what seemed to be very amateurish and slow responses by young women representing the CG.

Thank goodness my alternators regulator didn't pack up, until motoring alongside Dartmouth pontoons at 23.00hrs !

Gas alarms going, batteries charging at very high current = engine had to be switched off double quick.

What would the results of a slow CG response have been if it had happened 10-15mins earlier?

A bit rocky just off Dartmouth entrance!

S.

So you couldn't just disconnect the alternator & carry on with battery power then? Or cut the alternator belt & ditto? You would actually call out an emergency for something like that?

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

So you couldn't just disconnect the alternator & carry on with battery power then? Or cut the alternator belt & ditto? You would actually call out an emergency for something like that?

Oh Searush!!!

A 'wise man' who from the comfort of his armchair, ( given more than a few seconds to cogitate ) knows some of the 'obvious' answers.

S.

 

[Daydream believer]

Emergency call handling can mostly be done on script - but the skill comes in knowing what to do when it goes off script - and knowing quickly.

Perfectly correct but as i said - give it a year & that will be sorted

 

[chanelyacht]

Perfectly correct but as i said - give it a year & that will be sorted

Not a chance - and what cost during that year?

Management have the opportunity to sort this NOW - and to stop the rot until they can keep the promises they made to the Select Committee (which they knew they wouldn't do).

Sadly, this would upset too many senior careers.

Call handling for ambulance, fire service, and some police aspects can be done off a script - especially as their incidents are rarely in a dynamic environment. For search planning, response, etc it's only the CG that coordinate both nationally and locally - and the other services control room ops that I've worked with readily acknowledge that CG search planners have skills and responsibilities they (other services) do not have. That's why inland water SAR in the Lakes and the Broads went to HMCG, and why mountain rescue in Northern Ireland is handled by the CG (and watch this space for elsewhere).

 

[fireball]

So you couldn't just disconnect the alternator & carry on with battery power then? Or cut the alternator belt & ditto? You would actually call out an emergency for something like that?

That's ok for you, now, from the comfort of your chair - but how did you know it was the Alternator packed up? The engine alarm was going off ... it may indicate that you haven't got a charge or it may not - depends on the system - but you're now having to diagnose that in the dark whilst approaching an unknown harbour, probably without a load of crew to sail the boat for you (if there was any wind).

Ok - some of it comes down to planning, knowing what you're going to do in an emergency - but one of the things the (old) CG did with a pan pan call was to help stabilise the situation by suggesting options for the skipper. Simple stuff for many, but a calming influence onboard when you know there's someone there who "has your back" - and good assurance for crew as well. I've heard a good number of these types of calls, and all the suggestions are blatantly obvious (broken steering - can you anchor?, broken engine - can you sail? etc). I'm assuming a lot of these calls come in from skippers with family onboard where they have the pressure of reassuring them of their safety as well as sorting out the problem.

What isn't calming is calling in something like that and then having an uncertain response.


I'm fortunate enough to normally have a good crew who has sailed with me for many years who, in times of "crisis" does exactly what I ask (sometimes asking for a clarification - especially if I've got it wrong!) - that takes a lot of pressure off.
One incident that I called in was having picked up a larger yacht with a broken gearbox (we found out afterwards, they just didn't have propulsion) just at the entrance of the Little Russell/ Guernsey - just as the tide was about to flow down it - it was our first time in and the main chartplotter didn't have the right level of detail on (forgot to put the other card in!) and it was the first time for the towed vessel too - a simple call to the harbour office/CG had them on standby watching our progress and ensuring we weren't endangering ourselves - trying to manoeuvre a 37' boat with a 44' boat on a tow behind was ok, but you've got to plan ahead - not easy when you have no idea where you're going!! Oh, they did offer us a getout if we wanted and would've sent out another vessel to tow them in.

The calm response of the CG assured both us and the towed vessel - had we not had that then it would've been a lot more stressful - even with the navigator having the paper charts on deck. That's an example of the value of having experienced staff on the end of the radio.

 

[radio]

Well here in the Channel Islands we have not escaped the Coastguard changes, next year Guernsey Coastguard call taking will be moving to a new Joint Emergency Services Control Centre that is in the progress of being set up in the Police Station, multi functioning operators will be taking calls for Police, Fire, Ambulance and Coastguard. Operators will monitor the VHF and answer the telephone, take the details then in the case of a maritime incident pass the information to the on call duty SMC who will then take charge, sounds like same as with UK.

 

[FishyInverness]

Well here in the Channel Islands we have not escaped the Coastguard changes, next year Guernsey Coastguard call taking will be moving to a new Joint Emergency Services Control Centre that is in the progress of being set up in the Police Station, multi functioning operators will be taking calls for Police, Fire, Ambulance and Coastguard. Operators will monitor the VHF and answer the telephone, take the details then in the case of a maritime incident pass the information to the on call duty SMC who will then take charge, sounds like same as with UK.

Isle of Man went the same route about 12 years ago - I'm not sure how that operation panned out as I was just leaving as it came online.

 

[[70521]]

Oh and just to add a wee bit more, France is also having a restructure.

 

[bridevon]

With reference to the local knowledge question. Yes locations can all be entered into a computer and found quite easily. Easily that is until the winter storms hit and stations including Solent/Fareham lose their BT Lines and Internet access. It should then be down to the operators local knowledge to send resources to the correct position. Alas most of the new operators will be completely lost if they cannot find the location of an incident on their screen especially one that is cliff or shoreline based.
It is not as though they can go to the chart table and get a chart out to quickly locate a position as the MOC at Fareham and the stations remaining open will not have paper charts and not even a chart table. How is that for progress?

 

[fireball]

With reference to the local knowledge question. Yes locations can all be entered into a computer and found quite easily. Easily that is until the winter storms hit and stations including Solent/Fareham lose their BT Lines and Internet access. It should then be down to the operators local knowledge to send resources to the correct position. Alas most of the new operators will be completely lost if they cannot find the location of an incident on their screen especially one that is cliff or shoreline based.
It is not as though they can go to the chart table and get a chart out to quickly locate a position as the MOC at Fareham and the stations remaining open will not have paper charts and not even a chart table. How is that for progress?

Hmm ... not heard of failsafes in connectivity? I've had > 2 internet connections here at work for quite a few years and not had one instance where all lines were down. Had power cuts that we don't mitigate against, but that can be catered for.

 

[Daydream believer]

With reference to the local knowledge question. Yes locations can all be entered into a computer and found quite easily. Easily that is until the winter storms hit and stations including Solent/Fareham lose their BT Lines and Internet access. It should then be down to the operators local knowledge to send resources to the correct position. Alas most of the new operators will be completely lost if they cannot find the location of an incident on their screen especially one that is cliff or shoreline based.
It is not as though they can go to the chart table and get a chart out to quickly locate a position as the MOC at Fareham and the stations remaining open will not have paper charts and not even a chart table. How is that for progress?

I cannot agree
The CG will know what area the call came from by monitoring that aerial. So what is the difference someone in , say, Thames looking at a chart & someone in fareham selecting tha same chart
Neither am I convinced that the CG in each area is actually that difficult. It is just a job after all.
I bet any competent person could pick the job up in a couple of months. Forumites that say they cannot would be the sort that could not do so themselves so base their remarks on their own ability.
Lots of people go about saying all sorts of things cannot be done but anything can be overcome if the attitude to suceed is there in the first place.
It is all an attitude of mind. Will it to work & it will

 

[bridevon]

That was my point, i.e. they will not have paper charts to look at. As for not losing internet etc, look what happened a few years ago when Falmouth was struck by lightning and were out of operation completely for about 2 weeks. Nature can strike without giving notice!!

 

[Daydream believer]

That was my point, i.e. they will not have paper charts to look at. As for not losing internet etc, look what happened a few years ago when Falmouth was struck by lightning and were out of operation completely for about 2 weeks. Nature can strike without giving notice!!

Did the extg CG have any charts?
Why will they not have any charts - How do you know?
Or will they have a chart plotter which will be faster?

Well any CG station could be hit by lightening

 

[fireball]

That was my point, i.e. they will not have paper charts to look at. As for not losing internet etc, look what happened a few years ago when Falmouth was struck by lightning and were out of operation completely for about 2 weeks. Nature can strike without giving notice!!

Isn't that the point of the new infrastructure - it has a failsafe - one station goes down and another can pick up - or one gets busy and another can pick up the routine stuff for them.
Your point about lightning hitting the CG could happen to anyone anywhere and you can work around that.

I don't think CY is totally against the principle of the new infrastructure - just the way it's staffed.

 

[fireball]

I bet any competent person could pick the job up in a couple of months. Forumites that say they cannot would be the sort that could not do so themselves so base their remarks on their own ability.
Lots of people go about saying all sorts of things cannot be done but anything can be overcome if the attitude to suceed is there in the first place.
It is all an attitude of mind. Will it to work & it will

So where have all the competent people gone? They were there a few months ago ... and now we have trainees taking emergency calls seemingly in isolation without the authoritative voice that was once there.

 

[prv]

Did the extg CG have any charts?

Yes - a big one on the wall and a chart table like you'd find on a ship's bridge, with chart drawers under it.

Why will they not have any charts

Because the people who set up the arrangements thought they were building a call-centre, with rows of operators in headsets each handling their own separate telephone call. As an aside, that's presumably why I heard "Solent" overspeak their own casualty's reply with a different voice handling an unrelated matter - a model designed for telephones being applied to a shared radio channel.

Well any CG station could be hit by lightening

Yes, that one is a bit of a red herring. If Fareham lose their phone lines then they also lose all their antennae, so anything else becomes moot.

Pete