Coastguard Again

prv said:
That's a reasonable answer to a different question :)

Certainly recording evidence of the problem is a worthwhile thing for us to do as individuals. But the question was, when writing to MPs, the RYA, or whoever, what is it that we actually want the MCA to do now? They can't put things back exactly as they were because the people (who are the key to it all) are no longer there. So what should they do?

Pete
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I would suggest -

1. An immediate halt on the closure programme - no further MRCCs to close until such time as the Fareham fiasco is sorted out,
2. Hold the current redundancy programme, and use the detached duty programme currently propping up Aberdeen, Swansea, Thames, Dover to put some manpower into Fareham,
3. Open up Fareham posts for those made redundant when Solent closed, without it affecting redundancy payments,
4. Most urgently, drop the ridiculous "headset only" rule at Fareham. Half the problem is the watch team can't hear a newbies errors, or missed RT. The strength in the watch system was that everyone knew what was going on - this has now stopped.
5. Alan Massey (CEO), Richard Parkes (Director Maritime Ops) and Keith "there will be casualties" Oliver (Head, Maritime Ops) to leave,
6. A proper review of the programme to date, and what needs to be done to repairand rebuild HMCG.
 
RobbieW said:
To a large extent thats their problem, as the RYA are our representatives to govt etc what we need to do is raise a safety concern with them. It may be that one of the few remedies is to cease the rollout of the closures until more rigorous training of new staff has been completed, taking up the slack with any older centres still in operation (if any, I'm not up to date on a lot of this).
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The RYA wouldn't squeak a word against the closure programme when it was announced, (neither did the RNLI), so they won't be much use. Our representatives my arse.
 
bjl said:
You can monitor those channels and have a go at the Coastguard as much as you like but you must preserve the secrecy of correspondence.
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I don't believe I have given anything away apart from the inability of the coastguard service to handle two emergencies at the same time.
I made no mention of the part of the country where this happened other than saying it happened.

j
 
what would happen if someone using the CG to respond to an incident told the operator that s/he had better buck up her/his ideas and do something practical ?


"All conversations are recorded for training or quality control purposes " ?
 
prv said:
Until now, the assumption has been that the Coastguard operator is in control and everyone else has tended to defer to them in the management of an incident. If they don't improve, it'll be interesting to see if and how this changes.

Pete
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We heard a simple case of angling boat with engine failure and the CG response was so slow and hesitant with no attempt to gather vital info: size and type of vessel, home port, how many on board, lifejackets, able to anchor or not that I was very tempted to step in during the long silences, gather the info and relay it, even the casualty skipper at one point asked if the CG was still there! I think they will just be overwhelmed when a complex or multiple incident occurs.
 
chubby said:
We heard a simple case of angling boat with engine failure and the CG response was so slow and hesitant with no attempt to gather vital info: size and type of vessel, home port, how many on board, lifejackets, able to anchor or not that I was very tempted to step in during the long silences, gather the info and relay it, even the casualty skipper at one point asked if the CG was still there! I think they will just be overwhelmed when a complex or multiple incident occurs.
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Nxt stop Mumbai, Yello Doris here
 
chubby said:
We heard a simple case of angling boat with engine failure and the CG response was so slow and hesitant with no attempt to gather vital info: size and type of vessel, home port, how many on board, lifejackets, able to anchor or not that I was very tempted to step in during the long silences, gather the info and relay it, even the casualty skipper at one point asked if the CG was still there! I think they will just be overwhelmed when a complex or multiple incident occurs.
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That's the sort of thing I had in mind. In deep-sea rescues I understand there is the concept of the on-scene coordinator, by default the master of the first vessel to respond to the distress call. Probably less important now with convenient sat comms, but presumably in the past he'd have been basically in charge with only intermittent reports back to shore by morse. If the Coastguard operators aren't up to par, one can imagine a competent operator on a nearby vessel with a decent radio installation sliding into something reminiscent of that role.

Pete
 
chanelyacht is exactly right. Campaigns have been going on against the closures since 2010 and it is only now that people are showing concern. Too late for the stations already or in imminent danger of closing and the vast number of inexperienced staff who have left the coastguard.
 
prv said:
That's the sort of thing I had in mind. In deep-sea rescues I understand there is the concept of the on-scene coordinator, by default the master of the first vessel to respond to the distress call. Probably less important now with convenient sat comms, but presumably in the past he'd have been basically in charge with only intermittent reports back to shore by morse. If the Coastguard operators aren't up to par, one can imagine a competent operator on a nearby vessel with a decent radio installation sliding into something reminiscent of that role.

Pete
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I can relate to that idea. A potential problem is any litigative person getting involved - probably after the event. In dire circumstances - without any clear leadership, I have deep sympathy with someone who has a fair clue about the situation getting involved- and co-ordinating if need be.
It is unfortunately no longer the done thing...
But as pointed out, might come to the fore again?
 
I'd like to hear 'Chanelyacht's thoughts on the role of 'On Scene Commander' which, if memory serves, has a described - if not defined - role in the publications of the ITU.

We have been indoctrinated to become 'passive' and to defer to the MCA Coastguard, whatever befalls. That was probably based on the assumption that they knew exactly what they were doing and had the capacity to select and direct appropriate resources. As I understand this and similar threads, that presumption may no longer be valid.

In which case - in a life-threatening emergency - it is surely for the best-placed 'leader to emerge', assume effective control, and require/requisition the assets needed.....

Or is that too radical?
 
oldbilbo said:
I'd like to hear 'Chanelyacht's thoughts on the role of 'On Scene Commander' which, if memory serves, has a described - if not defined - role in the publications of the ITU.
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I've just had a quick google around, and it looks like the SAR convention defines both an "On-Scene Commander" and a "Coordinator Surface Search". It seems to be an either/or thing filling effectively the same role, but they get the former title if a professional rescuer or naval officer and the latter if merely a passing merchant ship. There are probably differences in detail as to their powers and obligations.

oldbilbo said:
We have been indoctrinated to become 'passive' and to defer to the MCA Coastguard, whatever befalls. That was probably based on the assumption that they knew exactly what they were doing and had the capacity to select and direct appropriate resources. As I understand this and similar threads, that presumption may no longer be valid.

In which case - in a life-threatening emergency - it is surely for the best-placed 'leader to emerge', assume effective control, and require/requisition the assets needed.....
Click to expand...

Thing is, the Coastguard still hold the power to task resources (the RNLI reserve the right to launch on their own initiative, but afaik rarely do so). So if you have someone with a serious head injury needing airlift to hospital, you need the Coastguard to send you that helicopter.

What I can imagine appearing is a more assertive kind of casualty (not all of them by any means, but the subset who are competent and composed despite the emergency), by necessity playing a more active part in managing their own rescue. A bit like you sometimes need to guide a call-centre operative to the right part of their script to get them to trigger the action you require from their company.

Pete
 
JumbleDuck said:
Since 2010? Where was all the south coast concern when we lost Oban Coastguard in 2000?
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But did you lose them to a different, competent MRCC (albeit a more distant one with a larger patch to cover), or to a call-centre full of complete beginners? The problem here isn't the move per se, though that's not ideal, it's the fact that in the process they lost nearly everybody who knows what they're doing on the air.

Pete
 
prv said:
But did you lose them to a different, competent MRCC (albeit a more distant one with a larger patch to cover), or to a call-centre full of complete beginners? The problem here isn't the move per se, though that's not ideal, it's the fact that in the process they lost nearly everybody who knows what they're doing on the air.
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OK, fair point. The importance of "local knowledge" is, I think, greatly overstated but the importance of "basic competence" can't be.
 
bridevon said:
chanelyacht is exactly right. Campaigns have been going on against the closures since 2010 and it is only now that people are showing concern. Too late for the stations already or in imminent danger of closing and the vast number of inexperienced staff who have left the coastguard.
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Was that meant to be "experienced staff"?

Mike.
 
Just to say its not only the UK Coastguard that changing, Guernsey are moving their "call taking" part of the Coastguard into a new Joint Services Control Centre, operators will be doing Coastguard duties and taking calls for Fire, Ambulance and Police. A call comes in, the operator takes the details and then passes them to the duty SMC to decide what action.
 
For all what has been said, the work the coastguard are there to do is not really that difficult.Provided there is not a large turnover of staff,
I can see in a years time that no one will know where the centre is based & it will be business as usual.
i think the bit about geographical location is a bit overstated. Computers hold most of the information which can be accessed fairly quickly. If b..y google can show ones car the only time it was outside the girlfriends house then it can find a boat aground on a sandbank.
Once the CG operators find out how to press the transmit button they will be up & running.
Some forumites have said how quiet the CG seems in some areas . That is certainly true & it can be said quite fairly that most of the time they have had sweet FA to do all day.
So in spite of all the rants I see no problem - eventually- although for the poor s.d who is drowning in the next 12 months or so ---Well!!!!!
 
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