Coastal Skipper or Yachtmaster

[john_morris_uk]

It would be interesting to know the difference in tasks as we all have our good and bad points. As all practical boat handling exercises (anchoring, berthing, pilotage, blind navigation etc) are undertaken in inshore or coastal waters, I would assume (maybe wrongly) they're much the same for Coastal or Offshore, the same applying to the many questions about COLREGS, lights, shapes, sound signals, etc. I can understand greater knowledge of weather and offshore passage planning needed for YM Offshore but, what are the extra or better skills you're looking for and tests applied?

There is no easy definitive answer as it all depends on the boat, the conditions, the situation, the area you’re sailing in and what is possible. Examiners are practised and usually (dare I say) skilled at setting scenarios that will demonstrate the candidates abilities or lack of ability. What is certain is that if there is any weakness or sign of a lack of knowledge you’re likely to be probed deeper and deeper in that area. In other words if you answer all initial questions on IRPCS confidently and with the correct answer then the examiner is likely to move on whether you’re at coastal or yacht master level.
By the way you shouldn’t be worried about the scenarios as examiners are heavily discouraged from setting trick ones. Bill Anderson who appointed me an examiner a few years ago now said, “You don’t have to set trick questions as the candidates are quite capable of mucking up by themselves.”

 

[zoidberg]

It's my understanding that the really trick questions and situations are reserved for 'Examining the Examiners....'
Cdr Bill was a master at this.

 

[Graham376]

Thanks for the input guys, at least it seems I'm not the only one who finds it a bit hard to work out the actual difference between the 'tests'. The fact that it is now clear that coastal skipper is a certificate of completion vs an actual exam for yachtmaster makes me lean more towards the coastal skipper course.

As we sailed short handed as a couple, I felt I wasn't learning other ways of doing things so booked the Coastal course as a learning exercise and the exam as a test of my competence, not for the sake of having a bit of paper. I learned a lot on that course, with an excellent instructor and am certain I wouldn't have passed the exam without doing it.

 

[Black Sheep]

[snip] top tip for anyone buying a boat to build miles on the way to YM, make sure it's big enough. A Twister isn't!

Suggesting a Twister isn’t big enough is a mistake IMHO. Minimum length is 7 metres IIRC and a Twister is 8.4 metres?

We've had this discussion before I'm sure.
LWL not LOA. I did check thoroughly at the time.
Qualifying passages | RYA exams

I think it’s an anomaly that hasn’t been corrected. The minimum qualifying size of boat for the exam is definitely stated as 7 metres LOA. If I get round to it I might have a word.

John - do please chase this down. My understanding is that we're talking about vessel size for qualifying experience (not about vessel size for the exam, which I'm happy is greater than 7m LOA).
Buck's link: Qualifying passages | RYA exams says qualifying passages must be in a vessel over 7m LWL
What I see on the RYA site for YM Coastal: RYA Yachtmaster Coastal Exam gives no minimum vessel size for the qualifying passages
My link has a button for "book your exam" which takes you to a form which also doesn't mention minimum vessel size for qualifying sea time.

So it looks to me as though there is currently no mimimum vessel size. I would be mightily T'd off if, after coughing up for the exam, the examiner told me that my experience wasn't adequate because of hidden criteria that were not disclosed to me when I was deciding to book.

In which case, the details in Buck's link do need to be corrected.

I'm considering broadening my skills (and getting some paper) with YMC, but Buck's link is telling me that I wouldn't be welcomed with my current logged hours.

 

[Graham376]

What I see on the RYA site for YM Coastal: RYA Yachtmaster Coastal Exam gives no minimum vessel size for the qualifying passages

So it looks to me as though there is currently no mimimum vessel size. I would be mightily T'd off if, after coughing up for the exam, the examiner told me that my experience wasn't adequate because of hidden criteria that were not disclosed to me when I was deciding to book.

If you follow your link for RYA Yachtmaster Coastal Exam, one of the boxes has a link - See: Information on qualifying passages. - which takes you to 7m - 24m for qualifying passages.

I don't know when the size limitation came in, most of my qualifying passages were in a Centaur, 6.5m waterline length.

 

[Black Sheep]

Thanks - I hadn't spotted that; it's Buck's link.
Well I guess that means I won't be doing any yachtmaster courses then

 

[Graham376]

Thanks - I hadn't spotted that; it's Buck's link.
Well I guess that means I won't be doing any yachtmaster courses then

That's a pity and the limitation seems unreasonable. Looking back at our sailing, passages in the Centaur were more tiring and harder work when it got lively, than in the larger boats we later owned.

 

[awol]

Thanks - I hadn't spotted that; it's Buck's link.
Well I guess that means I won't be doing any yachtmaster courses then

What is it with black porcine and ovine sailors that makes them the target of the RYA panjandrums? I believe they mean 7m LOA but there are so many different pages their IT menials have missed a few. I'm sure the Rev. will sort it out.

 

[Black Sheep]

To be honest, even going 7m LOA doesn't help with one of my boats. Looks like sailing an 18 footer from the Thames to Brixham & back isn't as good experience as motoring a 35 footer from Langstone to Lymington.
Why even have a lower size limit for the mileage? As Graham376 notes, it isn't easier in a smaller boat!
From where I'm sitting, it looks as though the RYA isn't interested in small boats, or their owners,

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I will be mightily peed off if they change it. I'm not doing another exam just to upgrade from YM Coastal to Offshore!

 

[Buck Turgidson]

To be honest, even going 7m LOA doesn't help with one of my boats. Looks like sailing an 18 footer from the Thames to Brixham & back isn't as good experience as motoring a 35 footer from Langstone to Lymington.
Why even have a lower size limit for the mileage? As Graham376 notes, it isn't easier in a smaller boat!
From where I'm sitting, it looks as though the RYA isn't interested in small boats, or their owners,

Try sailing a Laurent Giles Vertue from Algarve to Horta double handed or a Twister from Falmouth to Valencia non stop Singlehanded. Neither trip qualified due to boat size

 

[Skylark]

AFAIR, it's 2500 sea miles that are required, plus 8, I think, night hours. There is a discount on the mileage if you hold a Theory Course Attendance Certificate.

The Yachtmaster Scheme Syllabus and Logbook, G158, is a good source of reference as it details all courses, practical and Shorebased and the three RYA/MCA YM exams.

The pre-exam mileage requirement for YM Coastal CoC is 800 and this is reduced to 400 for holders of the Coastal Skipper Practical Course Completion Certificate.

The pre-exam mileage requirement for YM Offshore CoC is 2500 and there is no reduction for holding any other course completion certificates.

Within G158, there is no mention of mileage reduction for holders of any Shorebased course completion certificates.

 

[laika]

I think they base their 'level' requirements on sunsail's level system which also requires coastal skipper for some boats/destinations including the part of the caribbean I'll be sailing in. No idea why as I know these waters like the back of my hand and they are some of the least demanding I've ever sailed in.

Looking at the sunsail requirements and matching them to my memories of requirements for med charters (before I condemned myself to summer sailing holidays being cold and wet by buying a boat in the UK) it seems to be about expected passage duration (or distance from save haven?) and highest expected wind strength. I recall aegean charters (meltemi + longer inter-island passages) requiring coastal whereas ionian charters only required day skipper.

Beyond official regulatory requirements (which are rarely onerous) charter companies seem to be pretty open to negotiation to allow you to charter based on experience rather than the headline required qualifications, so if you're looking to charter somwhere you do know "like the back of your hand" it's probably worth at least having a conversation and asking what they need given your past experience.

 

[Neil]

To be honest, even going 7m LOA doesn't help with one of my boats. Looks like sailing an 18 footer from the Thames to Brixham & back isn't as good experience as motoring a 35 footer from Langstone to Lymington.
Why even have a lower size limit for the mileage? As Graham376 notes, it isn't easier in a smaller boat!
From where I'm sitting, it looks as though the RYA isn't interested in small boats, or their owners,

I started my mileage log in a Sadler 25 before they changed the qualifying boat regs to over 7m LWL halfway through; my Sadler 25 no longer qualified. They eventually conceded that my boat fulfilled the spirit of the regs, but I’ve no longer aspiration for the offshore ticket and anyway, I’ve now sold the boat and the new one coming is even smaller

 

[zoidberg]

Just like the Royal Western YC, RORC, and 'the great and the good' of sailing ( read 'pompous' ), the Senior Staff in RYA Towers had a period of 'upwardly mobile' aspirations. Broadly speaking, they concluded without much more than a moment's thought that 'small boats cannot be made sufficiently seaworthy' so collectively and individually they adopted the practice of excluding lots of small craft from their considerations and their events.

Boats under 30' were excluded from the 'Singlehanded Transatlantic Race', ignoring the clear fact that 4 of the 5 entries in the first STAR in 1960 were under 30 feet. The RYA's convoluted 'rules and regs' reflect much the same.

Rather shot themselves collectively in the foot.... The sailing world moved on without those 'dinosaurs'. Now, thousands of competent sailors have completed offshore AND ocean passages in boats under 30 feet; sailors of all nationalities, but none more than the French. Indeed, the 'Jester Challenge' was created in part to honour the memory of 'Blondie' Hasler and his values, and partly to 'cock a snoot' at the Armchair Admirals polishing their blazer buttons in the teak-lined drawing rooms of the establishment clubs, pontificating....

Rory McDougall sailed his 21' Wharram catamaran round the world, without an engine over 99% of the time. He also entered the 2010 Jester Atlantic Challenge, coming within a couple of hours of winning it being first into Newport RI.
'Cooking Fat' and JAC 2010

There is a strong temptation, when hearing yet again of the RYA's 'Rule of Over 7 Metres LWL' , to flip them the finger.....