club regattas

[oldmanofthehills]

When I was a member, it used to be the case that you could sink into the mud at Chepstow and District YC, at least on the front moorings. But the mud moves so it would be wise to check that this still is the case.

Chepstow St Pierre Pill is quite a nice trip from Cardiff, I normally go up outside Charlton Rock light then loop back via the oaze but if you stick mid channel you can go inside. A year ago you could sink your keel happily in the gloop next to the landing stages, indeed my dear navigator slipped tripped and fell in the previous year and sank up to her armpits and needed hauling out with the aid of club members. Rather a long walk across field to the Mathern arms but nice lunch when you get there

 

[Yellow Ballad]

The other good rally is Newport as access is easy to their pontoon and mud gloopy enough for any boat to sit in.

NUSC is a very welcoming club and I'm sure you'll be welcome any time, a very nice easy sail from and to Cardiff. Just a word of warning if you do dry out in the pill on the pontoon (which is just as easy as if you were to tie up to any pontoon inc spring lines) do not go past the pontoon as there's a high voltage pylon which will zap you...(it's on the charts), don't let the couple of fishing boats lull you into thinking you can go there.

 

[01_Anna]

Well Gentelmen,
this thread is in a danger of turning into WHY not to sail in any Bristol Channel regattas!
Overhead electrical lines, dangerous approaches to marinas,
and guaranteed "mud baths" are hardly enticing
This is perhaps also part of the problem.

The regattas in themselves, are not interesting enough to warrant quite a real danger of damaging the boat?
One more aspect, not mentioned previously is the weather.
The forecasting has improved dramatically in the time I have been sailing, but there is a change in the weather patterns also.
As perhaps the last boxing day +1 race clearly shows. For the first time in my sailing career.... I have been...waiting (!?) in the middle of the race, for the wind to put any appearance at all!
At least it was glouriously sunny!!!
As I mentioned previously, for us, drying out on a bulb keel, with a relatively deep draft is a no-go.
This is not a fully crewed boat able to be "heeled" by the crew to be freed from being stuck, but a two-handed affair, thus any contact with the ground, however soft, should be avoided at any cost!

We might attempt the Holmes race, depending on the exact time. At the moment, I was not able to find a date for 2019 at their website.

 

[Snoopy463]

I doubt if anyone racing in regattas has hurt their pride and joy by the objective dangers inherant in the BC. If you inhabit these waters you quickly learn about tidal streams, sandbanks and yes, even power lines. The dangers of racing include,but are not exclusively, the attitude of gung ho racers not really knowing the rules leading to collisions; the question of racing in unsuitable conditions and the suitability of the class of boat for the BC. Deep draft bulb keelers belong on the south coast or in the tideless lagoon that is Cardiff Bay (but even that may not be deep enough in parts).

 

[TOKOLOSHI]

Chepstow St Pierre Pill is quite a nice trip from Cardiff, I normally go up outside Charlton Rock light then loop back via the oaze but if you stick mid channel you can go inside. A year ago you could sink your keel happily in the gloop next to the landing stages, indeed my dear navigator slipped tripped and fell in the previous year and sank up to her armpits and needed hauling out with the aid of club members. Rather a long walk across field to the Mathern arms but nice lunch when you get there

Proposed dated for the CDYC Regatta is the 22nd and 23rd of June with a 11 mtr tide and Hw at 11am so an easy sail for the Down river clubs to make it!As said the mud is deep by the Club side pontoon up to 11ft so deep keels sit upright with mast top halyard tied to the pontoon! The lady in question was not put off sailing with the over generous mud pack!

You can be assured of a warm welcome and skippers get a free beer! ............usually!

And as they were in the 1950s Regatta with stylish sailing gear!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkHvKPVndNE

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Well Gentelmen,
this thread is in a danger of turning into WHY not to sail in any Bristol Channel regattas!

The power line is nothing to worry about as long as you know it's there... It's on the charts, there's signs up on either bank but people don't look, just a bit of local knowledge as mentioned earlier. I know there's a wing keeled boat that dries out in the mud that comes up every tide without a crew (if that's the same in other bits of the channel I don't know). A bulb shouldn't really be any different, it sit on it's keel when it's on the hard.

I believe the Holmes is 14th September.

 

[01_Anna]

Tokoloshi!
thank you very much for the information. Now...off to "hunting" for crew!

Snoopy463
If you tried to be funny, you sadly failed.
If you tried to patronise with your superior knowledge of racing&rules...ditto.

I have been sailing since a little girl.... having been brought up in a family of die-hard mountaneers.
And we are talking of proper mountains, not the hills in UK.

Which brings me to the last point:
I am the first person to freely admit, that my knowledge of sailing the Bristol Channel is very limited.
Moreover, I am trying very hard, to learn its vagaries and quirks.
That is, among other things why I have joined writing in this forum.

The attitude you represent, writing the above post, is sadly not helping. Sorry for being so direct.

 

[Snoopy463]

Anna
I was not trying to patronise nor be funny, just giving my honest opinion.
Racing used to be well contested in the BC in the past. The contestants tended to be grown up dinghy sailors with boats of bilge keel or conventional fin design that by definition had to deal with the tides for mooring purposes. ie there were no marinas or barraged lagoons so they had to take to the ground or sit in deep mud. With the advent of Cardiff Bay with 2 marinas and 2 clubs with stay afloat facilities, there was an inevitable trend to vessels with less capability of drying out.
The regatta circuit at the top end of the channel has suffered of late with the increase of such craft. In addition, folk are less enamoured with roughing it in venues with limited walk ashore facilities.
Just saying

 

[TOKOLOSHI]

The regatta circuit at the top end of the channel has suffered of late with the increase of such craft. In addition, folk are less enamoured with roughing it in venues with limited walk ashore facilities.

Sailors of old were more adept at making their own entertainment! with a banjo, guitar and a jews harp! with a few beers and simple fayre round a camp fire! Now most want Marina and waterside cafes and bars!

 

[01_Anna]

But the Cardiff Barrage was buid such a long time ago!
There is a whole new generation of sailors grown up since the old dinghy days you mention.

My daughter has tried dinghies, did not like it ( and we are talking warm water dinghy sailing, not Europe!) and never wanted to do it again.
Sailing is for fun, not for "survival against all the odds".
At least it is for myself and my kids.

No one in their right mind would like to go back to the "no facilities" sailing, what for?!
The same with boats. Those old boats had their place, back then. But now, the fun is in newer technologies, better sails, some extra equipment. I love fast sailing, I got a fast boat. For fun.
But, I cannot afford to carelessly damage it, due to not taking precautions,
and not paying attention to where we sail.
BTW my daughter did, among others, a Classic navigation course in Sea cadets.
I seriously doubt she is likely to use it in practice.

Back to the regatta question:
the regatta/racing time has to be easily accomodated by people with various constraints: work, school, caring for family members etc.
The regatta itself has to be in some way interesting. Either the location. Or the type of race. Boring, run the mill course...why would one try to sail, having done it before?
OK, so my daughter might have not. Therefore for her there could be the novelty factor! But for myself?
And for other sailors, like me, who did not "grow up" dinghy sailing,
but sailed proper boats from the word go? What would be the attraction?!

I do not know the answers to those questions. All I know that they have been posed to me.

I sail for pleasure. Only that.

 

[Snoopy463]

With the greatest of respect - you’re in the wrong place.

 

[01_Anna]

I beg your pardon?!

Would you care to elaborate?

Bristol Channel, to the best of my knowledge is not a private body of water!

I DO start to understand, why there are hardly ANY new, young sailors out there. My daughter is the only teenager in CBYC skippering a keel boat.
More people like you, with similar outlook, and there will be...none!

Thank goodness the people we do meet while sailing/racing in Bristol Channel are nice.
As are those we meet sailing elsewhere.

 

[Snoopy463]

Elaboration.

You seem to find our tidal sailing clubs such as CDYC and Uphill too tricky and hazardous to access with your chosen vessel. You assume NUSC with its overhead pylons a little dangerous. Our mudberths “hardly enticing”. Our existing regattas “not interesting”. PYCC website deficient. Our mountains are too small. Our water is too cold. You want to have fun. Regattas should accommodate your constraints, be held in interesting locations, not have boring run of the mill courses, you dislike waiting for the wind when trying to race.
Good luck in your search for perfection. I look forward to meeting you on this year’s regatta circuit.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I’m sorry 01-Anna I think you seem to be arguing from a very limited perspective.
Time constraints, work patterns have been in the way for the majority of those of us who sail, maybe back in the 1930’s and before when leisure sailing was for the wealthy who would employ crew such constraints didn’t exist, but certainly in my 50 years of sailing experience it has been regularly been necessary to juggle time and commitments to get on the boat let alone enter the races, that’s life.
Regatta’s in my experience have been the club events that bring club membership together, with the cruising fraternity joining in with those that race regularly for a day or two of fun competitiveness, and the social members helping ashore or on the water to keep the thing together. Timing of them can be a problem, we are in a tidal harbour which during some low neeps most of our boats don’t even have enough water to lift off at high tide so we have only a few days over the season when our regatta can be run, obviously we try to find a suitable weekend usually during the school holiday period but again have to avoid them clashing with other club regatta’s or local events. In an area such as the BC similar problems probably face the regatta organisers.
Obviously the planning, racing has to be interesting and not just the same old round the buouys used for every race during the year, and the odd novelty race is often worth looking at, but look a upon the club regatta as a highlight in the clubs calendar when it can be not just a sailing event but a social gathering as well.
I don’t think the world has changed as much as you seem to think, the majority still work regular hours, and will at times have other comitments which prevent them from entering some events, but most will try to make alternative arrangements in order to get to the annual regatta.
As for younger sailors, if you know why we aren’t getting the youngsters joining in sailing let us know because from my experience it’s a problem virtually every club in the country has.

 

[01_Anna]

Snoopy
You got it in one!

With a sole exception: we do try to race with CBYC organised IRC races, so if you care to join us you are most welcome! Either on board, or as a competitor!
Or, perhaps you are already one? Either way, contact me off this thread, if you are up to the challenge... of fun sailing in a racing boat! A completely serious offer!

My sailing is not centered in Bristol Channel, it is just a place where we are temporalily living, and thus where I keep my boat. For now.

PS
Perhaps, if you ventured futher afield, you might actually enjoy fully serviced marinas, absence of mud berths and... the overhelming prevalence some good food into the bargain? Who know, you might be...delighted!

 

[Yellow Ballad]

I think it's different strokes for different folks here.

Personally I love visiting other clubs and meeting new people, normally from other clubs doing the same. Living out of the area it's nice to know other people from the channel, unfortunately living out of the area, working full time with a young family with their own needs means I can't always attend regattas, even my own clubs... but I try to visit different places in my own time.

Once our lad is a bit older and I'm happy taking him on the boat I'm very looking forward to exploring more of the channel including sitting in another clubs mudberth with a pack of cards (probably a games console), cooking bad food whilst the rain pouring down outside and having to get up in the dark to catch the tide etc. He'll probably hate it but hopefully he'll look back at it when he's older with some fondness.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Sorry I didn't see your last reply before posting mine.

PS
Perhaps, if you ventured futher afield, you might actually enjoy fully serviced marinas, absence of mud berths and... the overhelming prevalence some good food into the bargain? Who know, you might be...delighted!

Unfortunately if I didn't have my old tub and it's £200 a year mooring (inc memberships fees) and other friendly clubs that'll let me stay on one of their moorings/pontoons for free I wouldn't be able to go sailing. I would love to have a fast boat, keep it in a fully serviced marina, have better sails, extra equipment but we live by our means. I/my family sacrifice a lot to have the boat and that includes buying our own house, but we have a great quality of life with no debt.

 

[01_Anna]

Praxinoscope,
I sail. For fun. As already stated previuosly, in this thread. The social part is not important to me at all.
I can join in but this is not what sailing is all about. For me. And for a lot of my sailing friends. Perhaps being woman has something to do with it?
I cannot comment on sailing in the time when I was not even born!

As I seem to be the ONLY person with teenagers at home, writing in this thread, I feel qualified to comment on this.
Nothing to do with a club, everything to do with the attitude of people running it.
I keep sailing with kids, friends of my own children.
My daughter was made welcome, just as a generation ago I was made welcome.
But, my friends tell me of the experiences which put them off, as well as put off their kids.

Look at this thread?
I am cautious, and I would not go to places I deem dangerous. Why? Because I am alone, with an underage kid aboard.
What was the reply?

Times have moved on.

When I went to school we had weekends free. Now, my children attend school on selected Sundays...because they are gifted, and it is the time when the classes are offered.

How do you attend both school and the races?

My guess, you did not have such a dilemma half a century ago, or did you?

Now my daugher says this:

It is a quote:
Youth do not see sailing as an option. It has a reputation of a sport for rich old men. There is hardly any info about it. ( my comment: by that they mean social media, internet etc. It HAS to be made accessible! For them, not burried in some club magazine).
She added, there is no one sailing they know.

Do you get the picture?
My friends, were not made welcome with their kids, so...they went elsewhere. My children's friends do not even think saling is for them.

I can keep taking kids out, but realistically how many could I take?
Why I seem to be the only one most of the time, on weekends, whe everyone here claims to sail more? An "outreach" approach is the only way, I think. Open days perhaps?
Try sailing ? Etc etc

 

[Praxinoscope]

Praxinoscope,
I sail. For fun. As already stated previuosly, in this thread. The social part is not important to me at all.
I can join in but this is not what sailing is all about. For me. And for a lot of my sailing friends. Perhaps being woman has something to do with it?
I cannot comment on sailing in the time when I was not even born!

As I seem to be the ONLY person with teenagers at home, writing in this thread, I feel qualified to comment on this.
Nothing to do with a club, everything to do with the attitude of people running it.
I keep sailing with kids, friends of my own children.
My daughter was made welcome, just as a generation ago I was made welcome.
But, my friends tell me of the experiences which put them off, as well as put off their kids.

Look at this thread?
I am cautious, and I would not go to places I deem dangerous. Why? Because I am alone, with an underage kid aboard.
What was the reply?

Times have moved on.

When I went to school we had weekends free. Now, my children attend school on selected Sundays...because they are gifted, and it is the time when the classes are offered.

How do you attend both school and the races?

My guess, you did not have such a dilemma half a century ago, or did you?

Now my daugher says this:

It is a quote:
Youth do not see sailing as an option. It has a reputation of a sport for rich old men. There is hardly any info about it. ( my comment: by that they mean social media, internet etc. It HAS to be made accessible! For them, not burried in some club magazine).
She added, there is no one sailing they know.

Do you get the picture?
My friends, were not made welcome with their kids, so...they went elsewhere. My children's friends do not even think saling is for them.

I can keep taking kids out, but realistically how many could I take?
Why I seem to be the only one most of the time, on weekends, whe everyone here claims to sail more? An "outreach" approach is the only way, I think. Open days perhaps?
Try sailing ? Etc etc

Please don’t give us the old ‘because I’m a woman’ thing, two of our most successful racers in our club are women, one is now aproaching her late 70’s rhe other is now in her mid 30’s, both sail hard and join in the social activities. My daughter who is now in her early 30’s started sailing in one of our clubs ‘Try Sailing’ weekends which ran from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon and covered basic theory on the water, rigging a dinghy, sailing a dinghy around the harbour and finally a short race between the club dinghy’s when she was 11 and actually gained her Yachtmaster at the age of 21. She was never made to feel unwelcome in any of the clubs we visited over the years she sailed with me. She was actually mentioned in the local newspaper in Plymouth when she was only 9 months old when we raced in Plymouth Week with her wedged in a quarter berth during the racing. As for undr age what do you classify as under age, my daughter was my only crew for a long weekend sailing over to Ireland and back, another club member used to take his 12 year old nephew for a month sailing around the Irish Sea.

Weekend school is a lifestyle choice not an essential, I’m sure they would be happy to miss the odd weekend to go sailing if they are enthusiastic about sailing. Maybe they aren’t?

Sailing like everything in life takes a bit of effort from everyone involved and may at times require some compromises.

 

[01_Anna]

Praxinoscope,
Do not mis-quote please!
The statement "I am female" referred to the fact I do not enjoy socialising in a club which centres on drinking. My sailing (girl)friends do not either.
This, and nothing more.

Dinghies again!
Why do you think, this is of any interest to any kids, nowadays? Let's concentrate on the interesting sailing, and speak of boats!
BTW. I never sailed a dinghy...

Ladies in their seventies who race have my full admiration! I hope I will be so agile.

Underage is anyone less than 18 year old. What was considered acceptable in the past, is not now.
Again, I am speaking from the position of an actual mother to teenagers, and not second hand experience.
To put it into context, I sailed a keelboat by myself as an early teen. Now, even the boat insurance specifies "adult responsible skipper..."

One cannot equate "What was then" with now.

As for missing school- this is simply not an option. Those classes are for GIFTED children. Put on especially for them, so that they excel in their exams. And hopefully later on in their chosen carreers. It would be highly irresponsible of me, as a parent to deny my own kids access to the education...for the sake of a little hobby. If you think they will miss it- just the opposite in fact. Kids nowadays are highly motivated, they actually know -that in order to get to a good university - they have to try extra hard. So they do. Not a lifestyle choice...but a necessity. Are we going to discuss the tuition fees next?
Did you pay for yours? I did, for my own degree!

So, are we comparing life then or life as it is now?

I did state above , what is my contribution, however little,
to introducing other children/ teenagers to sailing. Now.

I would be interested to hear about your experiences, what do you do now?