Cloudy diesel

I've found this article to be helpful ...

http://www.ezoil.com/resources-diesel-fuel-additives-emulsification-vs.-demulsification

Also on the Cruising Forum I came across an account from someone who had a similar experience to me. This person also found that fuel polishing with a Racor filter (with 10 micron filter) didn't take all the cloudiness (emulsified water) out.

I'm assuming now that the amount of emulsification in diesel is a continuum with, at one end, water that is about to separate out into free water (that the Racor and probably other filter / water separators can deal with) and at the other end water that is so emulsified that it passes through the filters and engine injectors with no problem.

There seems to be two approaches to my amount of emulsification - either treat to allow the emulsification to turn into free water (demulsify) that can be removed, or treat to emulsify even more finely so that it causes no damage. I'm assuming that the second of these is what Wynn's Dry Fuel (and similar products) do so I'll do this, which is what the article recommends, and report back.

Thanks all for help so far.
 
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I found a couple of safety data sheets a year or two back which indicated that methanol is the main constituent of water absorbtion products on the market. There is also an unidentified mixing agent. Maybe VicS has a few ideas on what that could be.

I meant to experiment with a bottle of cloudy diesel and some methanol from a model shop, which is a lot cheaper than the water remover from a chandlers, but the local model shop closed down and getting methanol from an online site in England is easier said than done.
 
Quandary said:
I am curious about this thread, so a serious question, can someone explain to me what problem is going to occur if the OP just uses his filtered cloudy diesel?
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This interests me as whilst I had a growth of bug on my number one tank bottom and in the fuel delivery pipe to my cav filter the diesel is cloudy but not dirty and once I cleared the pipes of goo the engine did run quite happily.
Having just opened up my second tank unlike the other one its full to the brim not as clear as it should be and I am as yet unsure whether the bug has got in there as I have had it unknowingly isolated for several or more years!
Also I did heavily dose the tanks some years back with bug killer and the cloudyness might be the result of it doing its job.
 
superheat6k said:
Then the obvious, but often overlooked - is your deck filler seal working ? A decent O ring and plenty of grease.
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Regarding the deck filler: should the grease be applied to the O ring, the thread, or both?
(Speaking as one who suspects water ingress from my deck filler)
 
I use a smear of Teflon grease on both. Blake seacock grease would do as well, possibly, but steer clear of "waterproof" greases as the chalk up as they dry.
 
OK .. today I ran all the fuel into 4 x 20 litre tanks via the Racor 10 micron filter fuel polisher to bring home. No free water at all was removed so I don't think more had got in after the polishing of a month ago. (Quite a lot of free water and other buggy slime was removed during that polishing.)

After running it through the Racor 10 micron filter today it had the same level of haziness as before (as far as I can judge by eye).

I'm going to treat the four containers seperately as follows ...

1. Polished again with 2 micron filter
2. Treated with Wynn's Dry Fuel (emulsifier)
3. Brought up to room temperature - indoors. (Others will stay in a shed.)
4. Untreated.

I'm doing number 3 because I noticed that the haziness cleared in the plastic filter bowl of the usual primary filter (in the engine bay) which is several degrees warmer than the fuel tank.

Will report back.
 
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Topcat47 said:
I use a smear of Teflon grease on both. Blake seacock grease would do as well, possibly, but steer clear of "waterproof" greases as the chalk up as they dry.
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Although the quantities are small, teflon is perhaps not something you want particles of in your fuel system.
 
Poey50 said:
OK .. today I ran all the fuel into 4 x 20 litre tanks via the Racor 10 micron filter fuel polisher to bring home. No free water at all was removed so I don't think more had got in after the polishing of a month ago. (Quite a lot of free water and other buggy slime was removed during that polishing.)

After running it through the Racor 10 micron filter today it had the same level of haziness as before (as far as I can judge by eye).

I'm going to treat the four containers seperately as follows ...

1. Polished again with 2 micron filter
2. Treated with Wynn's Dry Fuel (emulsifier)
3. Brought up to room temperature - indoors. (Others will stay in a shed.)
4. Untreated.

I'm doing number 3 because I noticed that the haziness cleared in the plastic filter bowl of the usual primary filter (in the engine bay) which is several degrees warmer than the fuel tank.

Will report back.
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The fuel is already dosed with one brand of snake oil?
Not sure I'd be happy to mix in another brand.

One possible approach to separate out some water might be to get the fuel as cold as possible?
The fuel might then clear as it warms to ambient.
 
lw395 said:
The fuel is already dosed with one brand of snake oil?
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I'm also usually sceptical about fuel additives but using a co-solvent to enable two normally immisicble liquids to from a homogenous whole is such a standard chemical procedure that I first used it during A-level chemistry almost 50 years ago. It, as they say, is not rocket science. ;)

Richard
 
RichardS said:
I'm also usually sceptical about fuel additives but using a co-solvent to enable two normally immisicble liquids to from a homogenous whole is such a standard chemical procedure that I first used it during A-level chemistry almost 50 years ago. It, as they say, is not rocket science. ;)

Richard
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And the stuff that's in these products other than over-priced methanol?
If you're going to put your faith in treatments, maybe best to stick to the same one, or check for compatibility?
 
lw395 said:
And the stuff that's in these products other than over-priced methanol?
If you're going to put your faith in treatments, maybe best to stick to the same one, or check for compatibility?
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The price is a completely different argument to "snake oil". Snake oil refers to efficacy.

Whether paying £8 for a tried and tested measure of commercial co-solvent or taking a punt and chucking in some cheap methyl/ethyl alcohol (which might well contain water unless you are careful) is the best approach depends upon your technical aptitude and your financial well-being. ;)

I'm not aware that anyone has specifically suggested mixing treatments ..... but a co-solvent will not cause any issues anyway. You can trust me .... I'm a chemist. :encouragement:

Richard
 
Quote Originally Posted by lw395
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Teflon grease may contain particles of ptfe which will go through filters.
When this plastic is heated in combustion, it makes a snotty corrosive mess.


While I'm in no position to describe the comment as nonsense, I wold be interested in the provenance. Ive been using Teflon Grease for years around the boat, everywhere except my Blakes seacocks in fact and only because I have a tin of the green goo have I not used it there. I would hope that the trace amounts in the grease which may find their way into my tank would be too small to cause problems, but I am interested in the chemistry supporting your comment.
 
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The quantities of ptfe particles getting from filler thread to the injectors is going to be very small. Possibly zero.
But teflon undoubtedly melts.
And burns to give fluorine-rich substances.
I'm no chemist, but a lot of F-compounds seem to be in the nasty category.
I can't see any attraction in putting that into injector nozzles.
It may never do any harm.
But why do it?

I was told not to use it near fuel by an aero-bloke, but it could be out of context.
I wasn't intending to make a big deal of it.
 
Freebee said:
As fuel gets warmer it can dissolve more water hence heating is not the way!
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I accept that. It must have been other contaminants that I manage to separate out.
Fuel will get hot when it passes through the injector pump. A reasonable portion will return to the tank. I found that about half the total fuel flow returned to the tank at cruising revs.
 
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