Close hauled or close reached?

[Seajet]

That boat is sailing full and by. This is slightly different to close-hauled, being defined as close-hauled with sails full. Then there's close and by which involves sailing close-hauled, erring towards luffing. Never heard of fine reaching myself, must be a new expression, possibly between close hauled and close reaching. Which is sailing full and by.
Complicated business this sailing.

Salty John,

yes a fine reach is full and by, between close hauled and a close reach, with the sheets cracked off a touch and the sails rather than helm being played; a good way of making progress to windward into strong winds and / or waves.

As far as I recall it's quite an old term, probably from the days of clippers ?

Andy

 

[Babylon]

It seems that the term "close hauled" is no longer used by RYA sailing schools but has been replaced by a "fine reach".

Not from what I can see! The RYA Day Skipper booklet only refers to a 'close-reach' and 'close-hauled' - the latter being illustrated as being as close to the wind as you can go before luffing and losing drive/speed, with the former illustrated as being several degrees off this, and on what I've always understood to be a 'fine-reach'.

Personally I've always preferred the term 'fine-reach' to 'close-reach', because the latter is too easily confused with 'close-hauled'.

For me, a 'fine-reach' is a relatively wider zone between being on a 'beam-reach' and being 'close-hauled' - and is not the same thing at all as being 'close-hauled'. EDIT: I've looked up one or two older tomes, and the expression 'full-and-by' was also used to describe being cracked just a few degrees off 'close-hauled'.

The only synonym for 'close-hauled' that I tend to otherwise use is 'hard-on-the-wind' - because it sounds just like it is!

 

[onesea]

Did I say that the Colregs say any of these things? No.

All I've said, and what I expect, is for the stand on vessel to hold its course and speed so that any alteration I make in accordance with the regs is not negated by the stand on vessel taking some whimsical and unpredictable action. It happens all the time in the Solent and makes perfectly simple situations more difficult than they need to be.

That’s fine but if you find all the other boats are making whimsical and unpredictable action. Maybe as stand on vessel you a pushing there comfort zone to much, they are out for a day out and maybe not care to have boats passing to close.
Sometimes it’s just more pleasant, not having to think about the possible unpredictable action of the give way vessel wanting to cut it close… I am sorry if this spoils your fun if that’s what your into, can I suggest racing?

Complicated business this sailing.

Only as complicated as people want to make it, a good pub quiz question put the following in order
From closet to wind to furthest from wind
Close reach
Reach
Beam Reach
Soldiers reach
Full and by
Broad reach,
Running,
Running by the lee.
Close hauled
Fine Reach
Fetch,
Close Fetch,
Close and By

Have I missed any? do include in your answer

 

[Mirror Painter]

I've just spent two days obtaining the RYA Level 1 certificate. I can confirm that 'Close Haul' and Close Reach' were covered.

I think I'm going to enjoy the sailing forum if a simple question can generate such discussion - great stuff

 

[Seajet]

Onesea,

just to add confusion surely it's a ' soldiers wind ' not a reach ?!

Moxon, welcome to the club, as you may have gathered nobody knows all about sailing !

 

[Simondjuk]

That’s fine but if you find all the other boats are making whimsical and unpredictable action. Maybe as stand on vessel you a pushing there comfort zone to much, they are out for a day out and maybe not care to have boats passing to close.
Sometimes it’s just more pleasant, not having to think about the possible unpredictable action of the give way vessel wanting to cut it close… I am sorry if this spoils your fun if that’s what your into, can I suggest racing?

My head hurts now.

 

[Lakesailor]

Does it really matter?

Just sail the way you like. Does it have to have a name. It's as bad as flag etiquette.

TB would have been able to advise on the ColRegs issues.

 

[30boat]

I'm getting a bit fed up with this to be honest...

 

[Simondjuk]

Well, at least you haven't got a headache.

 

[onesea]

Well, at least you haven't got a headache.

And I was the one that did not "understand the purpose of the regs".

 

[Fantasie 19]

Complicated business this sailing.

Nah... it isn't really.... we just like to make it more complicated...

 

[Seajet]

Nah... it isn't really.... we just like to make it more complicated...

Fantasie 19,

could I interest you in some barber haulers, lazyjacks, carbon fibre bowsprit and / or spinnaker with guys and sheets, fuel cell propulsion and an instrument package including multi function displays, radar, night vision and satphone ?!

 

[oldharry]

C'mon guys, your just confusing the poor fella.

Close hauled is what a sailing boat does most of the time. Because the wind always blows from where you want to go you can point close to your detstination. Reaching means you are going nicely across the wind but will never reach your destination, because the winds still blowing the wrong way. Running is when you fool the weather gods and go the opposite way to your passage plan and are getting the hell out before they spot it, and change the wind.

Seeemples.