Clever technical knot required

[sarabande]

These days, anything which dumps a 'plastic' rope into the river deserves to blow away the (fairly tenuous) eco credentials of the scheme and the bunny huggers will be all over you nearly as quick as the H&S mafia.
Dumping the tree downstream to do whatever damage might not be the brightest move either.
May even be illegal, just because some rubbish washed up on your patch, doesn't necessarily allow you to throw it back.
OTOH you may not be allowed to remove it either, without making sure no creepy crawlies have taken up residence and might have their yuletide spoiled.
You may think I'm not being serious, at your peril.

This is all being done in collaboration with the local Environment Agency with whom we have good professional and practical relations.

I am also well aware of the duties of a riparian owner

Owning a watercourse


The aim is to drag the tree to the bank and then let it rot over the next twenty years, thereby providing a micro-climate for all kinds of small mammals and arthropds etc.

Included in the contingency plan during the recovery phase, for which I also have responsibility, is preventing any worker being dragged into the river, hence my exploration of the options for a quick release knot at the tractor end, and the common-sense provision of a sharp axe, just in case. I think I know a little bit more about these sort of operations than you give me credit for. And as for your challenge about "tenuous" eco-credentials, I am happy to debate the carbon-cost of the infrastructure, and the lifetime running costs (include end of life disposal). Please be aware that the structure of the previous hydro station had been there for over a hundred years before we built our modern power station using a large proportion of the previous 1907 foundations, channels and sluices. The project was seven years in the planning phase, and covered more exploration and resolution of environmental issues than are covered by your trivial and vaguely insulting use of "bunny-huggers" and "creepy crawlies".

It is quite clear that you have little idea of the symbiotic long-term relationship between the natural processes of riverside life and death, and the work of a responsible and altruistic landowner.

 

[FulmarJeddo]

I would think attaching a rope to the tree would be the biggest challenge with that amount of water flowing. If you have worked that out, I think I would use a shorter, potentially sacrificial piece of rope attached to the tree with a loop in the end. Climbers use a figure of eight as it is supposed to be stronger than a bowline. Pass your longer towline through the loop with one end secured to the tractor, the other end also to the tractor, but secured with a Highway mans knot . If you do need to slip it, the tree only then disappears with a short length of rope

 

[lw395]

This is all being done in collaboration with the local Environment Agency with whom we have good professional and practical relations.

I am also well aware of the duties of a riparian owner

Owning a watercourse


The aim is to drag the tree to the bank and then let it rot over the next twenty years, thereby providing a micro-climate for all kinds of small mammals and arthropds etc.

Included in the contingency plan during the recovery phase, for which I also have responsibility, is preventing any worker being dragged into the river, hence my exploration of the options for a quick release knot at the tractor end, and the common-sense provision of a sharp axe, just in case. I think I know a little bit more about these sort of operations than you give me credit for. And as for your challenge about "tenuous" eco-credentials, I am happy to debate the carbon-cost of the infrastructure, and the lifetime running costs (include end of life disposal). Please be aware that the structure of the previous hydro station had been there for over a hundred years before we built our modern power station using a large proportion of the previous 1907 foundations, channels and sluices. The project was seven years in the planning phase, and covered more exploration and resolution of environmental issues than are covered by your trivial and vaguely insulting use of "bunny-huggers" and "creepy crawlies".

It is quite clear that you have little idea of the symbiotic long-term relationship between the natural processes of riverside life and death, and the work of a responsible and altruistic landowner.

In which case you really ought to take more care as to how you put your work into the public domain.
Symbiotic relationship of subsidy recipients an d the public etc....

As to knots, I think you're bonkers considering relying on a knot that will have been pulled tight by a tractor.
What works on one kind of rope might fail miserably on the day.
You could consider a snap shackle of the spinnaker guy flavour, which will release under load via a lanyard.
But in general, planning to let ropes fly under load needs a great deal of care. Lot of stored energy in a stretched rope.

 

[fisherman]

If there is anything but a bare smooth end of rope to slip round the tree it will suddenly snag, at the worst possible moment, and even a bare end will try to take a turn all by itself. One end on the tractor, the other with turns round a strong point, say a tree, or some other part of the tractor than where the first end is, with a person holding the end ready to let fly, and someone ready to cut both. Even letting fly safely can be a problem, seen someone hurt through wrapping turns round his fist, the rope tried to pull him through a block. Hold a bight of rope upright, put thumb through, wrap fingers round, it can't jam.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... The aim is to drag the tree to the bank and then let it rot over the next twenty years, thereby providing a micro-climate for all kinds of small mammals and arthropds etc. ....

Looking at the picture and this new piece of information I think an excavator, the longer reach type, would be better to pull the log in to the bank. Eliminate the risk completely of people being near the tree and rope failure. Should the log want to take off the excavator just tips up its bucket and off it goes. Something to consider. It looks as if it is too far for a JCB back hoe.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Looking at the picture and this new piece of information I think an excavator, the longer reach type, would be better to pull the log in to the bank. Eliminate the risk completely of people being near the tree and rope failure. Should the log want to take off the excavator just tips up its bucket and off it goes. Something to consider. It looks as if it is too far for a JCB back hoe.

I suspect that you would need something in the order of a 30-40 tonne excavator with a long reach boom, there are issues of getting them close to and working next to unsupported banks especially with water below plus getting it there would make a fair old mess of the field not to mention the cost for half an hours work.

 

[Spuddy]

Funny isn't it that only a small minority of posters saw that you wanted to tow it into the main stream and then release it. I agree about the highwayman's hitch or similar with a long leg to pull on. Or else Daydream Believers solution.
Does the Borden technique refer to Lizzie Borden who chopped up her family in, errm Massachusetts I think?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Funny isn't it that only a small minority of posters saw that you wanted to tow it into the main stream and then release it. I agree about the highwayman's hitch or similar with a long leg to pull on. Or else Daydream Believers solution.
Does the Borden technique refer to Lizzie Borden who chopped up her family in, errm Massachusetts I think?

The aim is to drag the tree to the bank and then let it rot over the next twenty years, thereby providing a micro-climate for all kinds of small mammals and arthropds etc. Saras post #21

 

[Poignard]

The aim is to drag the tree to the bank and then let it rot over the next twenty years, thereby providing a micro-climate for all kinds of small mammals and arthropds etc. Saras post #21

And in the meantime more floating trees, dead dogs, condoms, wet-wipes, and other debris will snag on it and eventually the river will be blocked and burst its banks.

Maybe what's needed is the loan of a few beavers ......

 

[coveman]

Looking at you picture and the size of the branch I wouldn't recommend a rope. There is a very significant force from the water current and I would allow the level to drop and then use a tractor and winch to pull it out.
Having used a winch regularly for work this approach would allow full control.
If you do use a rope make sure no one stands close in case it snaps ( which I would say is a very high possibility).
As has been said look into your legal responsibility if you disturb the branch and it floats off downstream and damages something or someone!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

And in the meantime more floating trees, dead dogs, condoms, wet-wipes, and other debris will snag on it and eventually the river will be blocked and burst its banks.

Maybe what's needed is the loan of a few beavers ......

It's not the Thames it is a pristine river flowing of Dartmoor maybe Exmoor, I forget, but it doesn't have Londoners with their filthy habits to contend with.

 

[Thistle]

I think I'd go for a rope round the tree rather than tied to it. I'd also consider two tractors (either with 2 ropes or, preferably, one at each end of the rope) so that pull can easily be provided from different directions as the tree moves. That also gives more options for easing the tension when you've got the tree where you want it.

 

[Cardinal]

Propose the project and its implementation to the local TAs as a useful exercise. They have all the necessary equipment and manpower and will love to put their training to good use in planning and implementing their plan.

 

[john_morris_uk]

In which case you really ought to take more care as to how you put your work into the public domain.
Symbiotic relationship of subsidy recipients an d the public etc....

As to knots, I think you're bonkers considering relying on a knot that will have been pulled tight by a tractor.
What works on one kind of rope might fail miserably on the day.
You could consider a snap shackle of the spinnaker guy flavour, which will release under load via a lanyard.
But in general, planning to let ropes fly under load needs a great deal of care. Lot of stored energy in a stretched rope.

With respect I think a snap shackle or similar would be bonkers.
I don’t think you know what a tug boat hitch is and how it can ALWAYS be undone. So long as the line size to bollard size is reasonable tug boat hitches don’t jamb. Hence my suggestion at the start of this thread.

 

[Aeolus]

Would it be feasible to launch a dinghy above the weir, connected by ropes fore and aft to the bank opposite the weir (i.e. on left side of the photo)? Let the dinghy float to the weir, securing it with the ropes it so it can't be washed over the weir, and then with a hand saw (or a battery powered reciprocating saw) cut the relatively thin branch that is holding the tree in place. Retrieve the dinghy (and sawyer) back to the bank.

 

[TOKOLOSHI]

If you can get a chain round the trunk ...........can it be winched to the bank? JCB should be able to pull that out of the water.............if you have a JCB! Merry Christmas.

 

[lw395]

With respect I think a snap shackle or similar would be bonkers.
I don’t think you know what a tug boat hitch is and how it can ALWAYS be undone. So long as the line size to bollard size is reasonable tug boat hitches don’t jamb. Hence my suggestion at the start of this thread.

The whole thing is bonkers.
Tractors, in my limited experience, don't tend to have the correct sized bollard for any kind of rope.
And releasing a rope from the fictional bollard at the back of the tractor would be fairly hazardous when you need to do it, which is when the tractor starts sliding in the direction of the river.
At least with a Tylaska you could pull the lanyard from the tractor seat.

The whole thing is Mr Bean meets 'Last of the Summer Wine'.

 

[Daydream believer]

Assuming that you can get a rope to it, why bother with a tractor? Drive a stake in the bank down stream as far as the rope will allow.. Tie the rope to tree & stake. Alternatively, tie the rope to another bankside, secure, tree
Get in the dinghy, suitably tied to the opposite bank, above the weir & saw, or chop, through the bit that is catching on the wier, or perhaps lever it off with a bit of scaffold pole.
When the log floats free it will swing down & into the bank. then sort it in the summer when the river level is down. The field will be less muddy & you will not chew the bank up with equipment. You can then place the tree where it will not hinder the river flow & provide the cover for wild life etc
Not seeing the river downstrean one might question whether it should be left in long term as you seem to suggest earlier. Might it snag other trees drifting down? Perhaps it would be better lifted onto the bank to rot there , thus leaving a clear water flow.

 

[Iliade]

Wait a couple more days and the water level will be enough to wash it away. You may find the odd car run up against the weir in its stead mind...

My vote would be for a long bargepole/boathook: Use it to run a length of rope with a buoy on the end under the tree (with that current a weighted line would not sink below the tree.) Then use another from the other bank to grab the buoy. Somehow return that end back to the first bank and you have a loop around the tree. If said loop is downstram of the snagging branch then it shouldn't slip off.

I would use some form of three-ring circus or the previously mentioned fancy knots because if it slips off the weir before it gets to the bank the tractor will be following it quickly. Maybe secure the release end such that if the tractor moves too far it will release the rope automatically. Also chain the tractor to a much larger vehicle or a large tree.

 

[Tarn]

I have a large tree stuck on the Hydro Electric station weir. Discussions with the Environment Agency have revealed that it seems to be our responsibility. Present river levels make it impossible for me to perform my-walking-on-water-with-a-chainsaw act, so Plan D is to attach a one end of a length of rope to the trunk, and the other to a big tractor on the adjacent field, then to tow the tree off the weir into the main stream, and release it.

This will require some force, as the drag is high, and I do not want to go swimming in a very expensive John Deere. Obviously the rope can be cut with an axe (the "Borden technique") , but in the absence of a spare Robinson's disengaging gear, what easily released knot would the panel recommend for tying the tree to the tractor please ?

Ashley's is uncharacteristically lacking in good specific advice.

Use a timber hitch