Cleating off my genoa on the traveller?

[pcatterall]

Our genoa sheets are currently controlled in a fairly basic and not very convenient manner. We now have the opportunity to use an inner stay to fly another sail cutter fashion so we want to improve the set up.
Currently the genoa sheet comes back to a pulley on the traveller and then directly up to our basic winch on the centre cockpits coaming. The sheet is then secured to a cleat in the dog house ( that part of the sheet is awkward anyway as it has to be climbed over to exit the cockpit to go forward).
This works ok when we are just using the genoa but if we have another sail we cannot use the winch.
I wonder if there is a system/device where the sheet comes through the pulley on the traveller then via a clutch also on the traveller and a second pulley again on the traveller then onto the winch ? The clutch would be reachable from in the cockpit and applying it would free up the winch for the second sails sheet. I guess the question arises then regarding being able to get the second sheet off the winch to adjust the genoa sheet!
We are 'blessed' with a fixed dog house and cannot run lines over or through that ( everything has to run along the side deck)
I have been touring our marina looking for solutions to our problem without success so need help from the forum (again)

 

[NormanS]

I think that in order to use the one winch for the two sheets, you would need to have each sheet passing through its own clutch, before it got to the winch. Perfectly do-able.

 

[prv]

A photo of your side deck etc would help a lot - but one thing that springs to mind immediately are turning blocks with a clutch built in. Can't find a photo right now, but they seemed to be somewhat common on 80s cruisers. Might kill two birds with one stone if you don't like the current sheet lead anyway?

Pete

 

[lw395]

There is a lot of load on a genoa sheet, so the jib car may not like being used to jam the sheet.
Likewise a serious clutch would be needed, and it might not be kind to the rope.
A strongly mounted turning block and taking one of the sheets across to the windward winch might be a good answer.

 

[lpdsn]

Have you thought about fitting a self-tacker for the stay sail? Then (guessing in the absence of photos) you might be able to arrange to bring the single sheet over the coachroof.

 

[lpdsn]

Likewise a serious clutch would be needed, and it might not be kind to the rope.

I've a Dehler CWS and have to use clutches on the sheets. Yes, they're quite serious clutches but it works ok. I prefer to leave the clutch open with the working sheet around the winch whenever I can, but if I have to close the clutch to use the winch for another line it's just a matter of grinding on a tad before opening the clutch again to avoid wear on the sheet.

 

[William_H]

I think clutches are horrible things. They do not always hold and can tend to slip. At least mine with 10mm poly rope on main halyard does. They are expensive to buy and in fact one can buy a small cheap winch for similar money.
I think the arrangement of using one winch in the centre of the cabin top very poor.
I would advocate moving the top winch down to the side deck of the cockpit and add another winch for the other side.
Then consider 2 more winches for the additional jib. Use simple horn cleat or cam cleat for the sheet after the winch.
here is one small winch in Oz https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=93088&search123=93088&intAbsolutePage=1 Take off 10% for oz tax. about 55 pence to the oz dollar.
Now that is a fairly light winch but of similar price to a good clutch. Shop around and consider. olewill

 

[pcatterall]

Thanks, some good info to mull over. William H has misunderstood my post...... there is a winch mounted on the port and on the starboard cockpit coamings and not one on the cabin top.
As we have a dog house there is no chance to fit the usual 'bank of clutches' on the coachroof.
concerning loads; I 'thought' that the loading of some sort of clutch acting along line of the traveller would not introduce more loading than does the existing pulling where the direction of pull is effectively 'lifting' the traveller.
Self tacker is an option though the sail would be very small.
I will look through my photos and see if there are any which show the situation.
Thanks again!

 

[DavidMcMullan]

Not sure if it helps, but this is our arrangement, with a turning block for the genoa with a jamber - similar to the one further down on the photo. These work well for us, when the winch is needed for some of the other lines from the bank of clutches, e.g. for reefing the main. They will take a significant load.