classic/traditonal boats and fastnet storm

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lilianroyle

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Having watched last nights TV and read about this disaster before I wonder how some of our traditional or classic designs would have fared. Smacks, Pilot cutters even trad cruising designs. Personally I've never experienced worse than a force 8 on the beam on a reasonably sunny day crossing from Alderney to Weymouth. Beam seas started to get a bit awkward but otherwise OK. Watching last night made me pray it never happens but also wonder what if.
 
"Jolie Brise" was in the area, to the southward of the Fastnet fleet. She had no damage, but was probably out of the very worst of the wind.
 
Well the boom and gaff would be vulnerable as also any bulwarks and doghouse/forehatch in a knockdown and breaking seas,of course.
With trysail rigged,bowsprit and spars stowed,a long keel,strong rudder and no loose internal ballast,who knows,luck and the right tactics and a really well built hull probably put one on top of more options than a highsided fin and skeg job,no?
 
I remember reading about a BoT test where the examiner was raining down spars and carried away bowsrits on to the candidates ficticious brig
to test his knowledge,he finshed buy suggesting that the rudder had been carried away and the topmast had stove in the forward hatch...what would you do now sir!
 
Re: classic/traditonal boats and bad weather

The critical moment in sitting out bad weather in a gaff cutter is the point at which you decide to get the mainsail off her and set the trysail.

I had the huge advantage of having been taught how to do this by a man who did it very regularly.

There are essentially two problems:

One is that you are presumably hove-to under reefed mainsail and staysail, with the tiller lashed down and the staysail clew hauled a-weather. When you drop the mainsail she will pay off unless you let the staysail draw first, so that, with the mainsail off her, she will lie-to under staysail.

So ideally you want one hand at the helm, to meet her as she pays off and stop her either luffing or bearing away too far.

The other problem is that you need to control the peak of the gaff as the mainsail comes down. The risk of hands being swept off the deck by the gaff si very real - the death of Eric tabarly is a case in point.

The method I was taught involves the helmsman trapping the topsail sheet (or a gaff vang, if no topsail is carried) round a cleat and keeping it as short as possible, so as to give some control over the gaff.

Once the gaff is down and a tyer has been passed, the situation becomes easier. Personally I very much prefer a rigid boom gallows, as otherwise one has to get the boom and gaff down on deck and lashed in the scuppers.

Setting the trysail is easy assuming one can lug the thing into position. It should have toggles and parrel balls at each eye on the luff, and usually one needs to run the sheets through the spinnaker or outer mainsheet blocks aft. Once it's set, you can haul the staysail clew a-weather again, resume the hove-to position and go below.

The exercise can be done singlehanded, and there is a good description of it in Worth's "Yacht Cruising" but it is very much more awkward, as you may imagine.

Boats with a moderately cut away forefoot, like mine, will heave to under staysail only (helm lashed harder down than when hove-to under main and staysail) and to be honest I've usually taken this lazy option!
 
Re: classic/traditonal boats and bad weather

I had a jackstay which was fastened at the hounds and bowser down at the foot of the mast,in theory the trysail was hanked to it, but I never tried it and whilst I owned the boat never needed to.But on a 40 foot gaffer the boom and the gaff are fearsome and I would agree about fixed boom gallows,My nexy boat ,if , will be a bermudian sloop!
 
Controlling the Gaff

On Aeolus I have twin topping lifts with ropes which pass from one to the other via the boom in about four places. ie lazyjacks. In this way the gaff (and main) cannot swing about, nor fall on the deck, but follow the boom. The gaff in itself is not a danger to crew members.
 
Re: classic/traditonal boats and bad weather

That's interesting.

My friendly neighbourhood sailmaker, a man of considerable experience in bermuda rigged offshore racers 20-30 years ago, tried to persuade me into the jackstay system you describe.

I presume that the "point of it" is that the trysail can sit at the foot of the mast, ready hanked on, but I would have none of it, suspecting that it would be impossible to tension the jackstay enough to stop the luff lifting and fluttering. And I don't like adding to compression loads on the mast just for convenience.

I've found the toggles and parrel balls routine quite simple and quick - there is nothing fiddly or finger trapping about it.
 
Re: classic/traditonal boats and bad weather

Well no I imagined that when the time came to raise the trysail the method you use would be victime to lots of friction,butas I say never go to try it!
 
Re: Controlling the Gaff

What happens when you lower away in a gale?

Doesn't the sail and the gaff tend to hang up on the lee lift and lazyjacks?
 
Re: classic/traditonal boats and bad weather

That's the clever bit of the traditional system. The eyes on the luff have a length of rope (say 8-10 mm) knotted through them, with a couple of parrel beads on each side and a soft eye and a toggle on the fore side of the mast. The parrels stop the rope hanging up on the mast.

The reason for not having the sort of /\/\/\/\/\/\/ lacing that you have on the luff of a gaff mainsail (unless you have hoops!) is that it would not be practical to go threading a lacing in a gale.
 
Re: Controlling the Gaff

I always raise and lower head to wind if I can---presumably you do too. But in any case the weight of the boom keeps the lazyjacks tight. I have found it to be a great system especially since I singlehand a lot. The gaff and main just drop onto the boom.
 
Re: Controlling the Gaff

Actually, I don't! I am pretty casual about what we are doing when we hoist and lower the mainsail - it's one of the great advantages of the gaff rig, for me!

With wind against tide I will leave the mooring under jib and get the main up as soon as I can, and likewise when returning to the mooring, the chances are that one weekend in two I will have a sea breeze over the early ebb, so I drop the main before getting to the mooring.

If you use the topsail sheet as a vang you can keep the gaff off the shrouds, though it's not very kind to the sail.

Could not do that with a bermudian mainsail - which is one reason why people motor on an off their moorings.

Seriously, I was thinking more of dropping the mainsail in heavy weather at sea, when you won't be head to wind. But if you don't use a trysail its academic.
 
Re: Controlling the Gaff

Never had to stow the gaff on a boat in a real blow, but even in lighter conditions, the layzjacks really keep the gaff and mainsail under control nearer the deck. Did find that the upper running backstays did a similar job higher up, but chewed the hell out of the varnich on the gaff. I understand that brass stripping on the sides of the gaff prevent this from happening now.

I can vouch for the handiness of a solid boom crutch, as well lashed down, the boom's a good handhold, and doesn't impede sea-wash down the deck.
 
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