Citizenship points.

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burgundyben

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I met a chap last week, he had an idea that I thought I'd share with the forum.

It might need some refinement but I reckon it might do the nation some good.

You start school, you get citizenship points for good attendance, good scholary effort, good behaviiour, if you mis-behave, you loose points. You have to reach a threshhold of points to be allowed to continue to do A levels, to drive a car, to claim social security benefit, to go to university. For crimes or litter dropping or grafiti you loose points, you can earn extra points for community service type work.

It might give the younger generations something to aim for, a bit of purpose a sense of being rewarded for having done good.

Discuss.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.
 
mmm - nice idea - I like the principles behind this.

However, who will have the authority to award the points - and does favouritsm come into it - let alone bribery and corruption.

Strange you should post this - my daughter has just got some post regarding her "Citizen Card" - some form of age ID.

Lets go the whole hog and introduce an ID scheme for everyone - to be used to identify you as a person. Then we could microchip everyone and use satilite tracking to know where you are - imagine the effect on the Police for crime solving / prevention. The technology must be available surely.

This is not said sarcastically - it would solve loads of real issues. The only ones upset would be criminals and do gooders who believe in freedom for the individual. They fail to realise it would solve more problems than it created.

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>More Pics of Kelisha</A> /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 
What about combining voting eligability to citizenship. Or perhaps a system similar to that suggested by Nevil Shute in "In The Wet" where additional votes can be won for higher education, service in the armed forces etc.

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There is nothing wrong with DNA tests per se, just with some of the labs who run them (UK labs are on the whole very well run).

However, there is a simple way around many of the issues (if such a nationwide database scheme were set up), and that is for the state to provide and pay for samples (and record) to be tested at an independent lab, either automatically, or at the request of the person who thinks that a false positive has occurred.



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'However, who will have the authority to award the points - and does favouritsm come into it - let alone bribery and corruption.'

Strangely, I was listening to a Radio 4 program just a day or two, and they were talking to a woman who was brought up in Iran. As a kid, she went to school to pick up her exam results. Being out of school, she wore a pink scarf and perfume (both verboten under school rules). One of the 'thought police' saw her, and instantly gave her 15/20 Morality Points on her school report. As you need 20/20 Morality points to go to University, that was it, no University

As you say, any awarding of Citizenship points that affected future careers and opportunities would have to be carefully controlled to avoid malevolent people and idiots spoiling a kids future

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'DNA fingerprinting' is a misnomer. Its not possible to store the entire DNA sequence of an individual, so they concentrate on the Variable Number Tandom Repeat sequences and use these to derive a probability that two samples match.

The problem is that this probability varies and most people think that a 'match' is an exact match - which isn't the case.

Whether the problems be lab problems, or juries not grasping the statistics or anything else - false positives are already a problem, and expanding the set of samples you can match against will just increase the number.

(far too offtopic, sorry, normal service will be resumed ;)

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I should point out for fairness, that I did my PhD in DNA fingerprinting (and later was commercially involved), and while VNTR gives a good starting point, there are other techniques which take a little longer but are considerably more precise. One of the techniques I used gave identification a statistical probability of 10 to power minus 69

VNTR as a screening technique is fine, but other techniques can be used to decrease any possibility of false positives. Impossible to totally eliminate errors, but to be honest, human error as in inaccurate record keeping and labelling, and cross contamination are far bigger causes of concern.


Don't really want to go into this further, as it will get rather technical and boring



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Re: Citizenship points. Correct link

Correct link is: http://www.scientific.org/articles/JFS excerpt.htm
DNA testing for all - big yes (and a huge drop in false accusations will follow)
ID cards - that too, good enough for the rest of europe - who needs a passport?
More prisons - if needed, otherwise cram em in - they did the crime why should we pay for their comfort.
Illegals - no safe harbour here, chuck em back at the last country they were in, with no exceptions! - with clear instructions on how to apply to get permission to come here. Once they are here legally, then chuck em out if they don't conform to our laws and standards

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Isn't that what used to be done? If one lost too many citizenship points you lost your citizenship and got deported to Australia.

My views on the matter are plain from passing on the accusation of my friends that my politics lie somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan's.

John

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by MainlySteam on 29/08/2003 03:39 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Bring on Orsen Wells!!

life should be judged on merit, and hard work not brownie points imho.
julian

<hr width=100% size=1>man made it ,man can repair it, i think??
 
Most of the errors that have occured with DNA testing have been due to human error or misinterpretation of results. The majority of the examples given in that article date from around 10 years ago, much research has been done since then, both on the technology itself is done and how the evidence is gathered.

The main problem in my opinion is that the technology was oversold by prosecution teams so that you get a partisan view of the technology one lot saying its perfect and the other saying its dangerously flawed. What we should have is a more balanced view so that we can get to the truth.

Steve D

<hr width=100% size=1>No. I was right the first time....
 
Part of the problem is that we aren't citizens -- we are subjects... though whether subject to Her Majesty or Mr Blair, I sometimes wonder.

I think a national ID card scheme is a great idea, but I draw the line at making carrying a card complulsory -- additionally the card should carry your wishes in case you die regarding organ donation, with an opt out scheme rather than opt in.

Hopefully this wopuld solve two issues -- first that of fraud.
My sister had £ 4000 taken from her bank account on Thursday by someone pretending to be her .. they paid in 7 k in duff cheques and sucked out the 4k.. which conveniently happened the day her partner died in a car crash.

Would personally like to flog whoever did it -- just causing her more problems at a time when she is completely distraught...

secondly it would make waiting lists for organ transplants vanish overnight... best of all would be a scheme where criminals would have to donate organs while still alive for each crime.. sort of an extension of sharia law

wonder if you would consider mugging an old lady knowing if caught you'd lose your second kidney?

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Re: Id Cards.

The problem with ID cards is firstly forgery and then persuading everyone to carry them at all times. I can't even remember to always carry my wallet and keys.

It occured to me that the way round this is for the authorities to hold a picture and details on a database. The police then say "Whats your name and birthdate sonny?" then a few seconds later on their WAP phone there is your picture.
With a password, you could download your own details for proof of ID too.
Well it might work.

Geoff

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Re: Citizenship points. Correct link

Dave,if you do something a "bit" naughty where do we chuck you.I suspect that your forebears ran up the beach sometime in the past./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Two boats please one here n one in the Med
 
EXtra votes for the military and for those not needing to earn a living.
So learning to kill and spending a few years reading Eng.lit makes you more equal than others.............Very interesting.


<hr width=100% size=1>Two boats please one here n one in the Med
 
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