CINDER 22

H

heronflyer

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Ahoy there all you Cinder Sailors, allow me to introduce myself. I am an ex Heron sailor turned flyer now, in my dotage, I am wishing to go down to the sea again, but in something sedate and with a lid! I think a Cinder 22 might fit my requirements,but I have yet to see one in the GRP so to speak.
I should be very greatfull if someone would be good einough to post a personal test report, even moreso if someone in the South West would be good einough to offer me a viewing.
PS I'l buy the beer!



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I have a feeling that, many years ago, it won a "one of a kind" rally. Lots of good points. Have you phoned lots of brokers ?
Ken

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No I have not spoken to brokers because I find them to be rather like estate agents, ie they will gloss over any weak points and only 'sell the benefits'. I am hoping to get to talk to a Cinder Sailer who is NOT trying to sell me his boat and therfore proffer a reliable assesment of the boat. Can anyone outhere help?

Nick, The Heronflyer

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Bristows book of yachts 1967;

Cinder.

LOA 21'62.
LWL 18'.
Beam 7'.
Draft 3'3"
TM 4 tons.
Displacement 3960 lbs.
Headroom, 5' 5"
Sail area, 250 sq'

Moulded to Lloyds spec' by Tylers.......fast, exciting, exceptionally light on the helm. Ideal boat for the family or racing enthusiast....!

I looked at one many years ago, thought she looked a good strong sea boat, liked the long keel and was impressed by how stiff she felt when I stepped aboard. Never sailed her though. Always struck me as a 'proper' little yacht though well outclassed now for racing I should think.
Tylers always had a good reputation for the strength of their lay up. Sorry can't be more help.
Mike.



<hr width=100% size=1>My Mum say's I'm not a fat b@st@rd, just heavy boned.
 
Hi Mike, and thanks a lot, this is the sort of stuff I need in order to make a decision. There are a few advertised at the moment, but all too far away to have a quick 'look-see.' I am told there is one on the Exe, but I have yet to see it, perhaps someone outhere could help.

Nick the Heronflyer.

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Hi Nick. Have you done a search of the forum on cinder 22? I'm sure there is at least one poster in Scotland who has a Cinder.
With regard to weak points, Most of the small but relatively heavy weight yachts of this era were very much overbuilt compared to modern yachts of this size. Also they seem to suffer a lot less from osmosis due to a lot better wetting out of the glass during the lay up.
The slightly boxy look of the cabin gives far better head room below than was available in the later (And arguably prettier Tyler 22) with a similar hull shape. The long keel will give interesting handling in reverse under motor but in my opinion this slight disadvantage is well compensated for by the handling under sail. (To be honest in a boat this size it wouldn't be a problem) Her weight should give a nice steady motion in a seaway as well.
If you P.M me with your e-mail I'll try to scan in the details and picture I have. It is interesting to note that the boat in the picture appears to be sailing with 6 people on board! Regards, Mike.


<hr width=100% size=1>My Mum say's I'm not a fat b@st@rd, just heavy boned.
 
I would recommend the Cinder as a good solid and seaworthy day sailer/small cruiser. Designed by John Westell who was also responsaible for the Nova 27 and the 505 dinghy! As someone has already said, Tylers have a very good reputation as GRP molders and also molded a whole range of quality boats such as the Twisters and some Trintellas.

I usually sail alone which is quite possible with an autohelm and easier if halyards and reefing lines are lead back to the cockpit. Cruising with 2 is possible, but inevitably cramped. Perhaps not the best boat to introduce a novice crew given the tendency to heel to 30 degrees or so before hardening up due to narrow beam of only 7 ft. With a good breeze (4-5) the gunnels can be awash in gusts, although it is obviously possible to sail on a more even keel if you reduce sail. This should not put you off, it is just a characteristic of the design and rather different from a modern beamy boat. On the plus side sailing at this angle does not result in significant weather helm if the sails are balanced correctly, unlike some newer boats I have sailed in which getting the gunnels awash is impossible because weather helm takes over long before you get that far.

As for things to look for; apart from the normal (seacocks, hull blisters, obvious deck leaks, standing rigging, gas installation, wiring, sails, nav gear, prop, shaft, stern gland etc.) specific things I would suggest are as follows:

Hull: This is thick and solid. Mine has had epoxy treatment, but I don't think it needed it. No blisters, and I was told that it was kept in the water for 6 years continuously at one point.

Mast/rig: if this is original it will be about 40 years old. If possible remove one of the spreader sockets/lower shroud attachments to see how worn the bolt hole through the mast is. Similarly the cap-shroud attachments at the mast head. Originally a roller reefing boom was fitted. halyards are external, but this is fine. Slab reefing is preferable and will probably have replaced the roller system. I have Plastimo 406 headsail reefing (their smallest/cheapest) and it works fine.

Rudder: This is a hollow GRP molding. Mine had water in it which could be heard sloshing around. This could corrode the tangs which secure it to the stock. The fitting at the foot of the rudder which attaches it to the keel is important as without it only the bronze tiller attachment is keeping the rudder in the boat. This bronze casting can crack if the bolts have been over tightened.

Windows: The originals were perspex with nasty rubber moldings holding them into the coachroof sides. If the rubber has been renewed they may be OK, but the originals will be perished and a good push will be all that is needed to force them out. I replaced with oversized 6mm perspex screwed down into the coachroof sides on neoprene foam/sealant with self tapping screws. If you choose to replace seal look up www.sealsdirect.co.uk

Engine: Originals were Volvo MD1, which if looked after may still be OK. Minimum would be 6 hp eg the Yanmar 1GM which I have which gives 5 knot cruising but struggles a bit into a headsea/wind. Better would be 9 or 10 hp. If outboard 8 hp would be fine. Original fuel tank is 5 gals mild steel. May be rusty internally. Mine has no water tank.

Cockpit: the entire cockpit well with the hatch in the bottom can be removed by removing lots of screws around the edges. If the seal between the well and the cockpit seats is poor water will get in. Throw a bucket of water over the cockpit seats and see if any comes theough into the bilges. The cockpit sole hatch sits on a wooden frame. This may be rotten as it sits in water most of the time.

Overall, for a sound boat with good sails, nav gear etc. and a servisable inboard diesel £3500-£4000 would be a reasonable price. They are honest boats which were built sufficiently strongly to last, I cannot imagine some of todays new 22 footers lasting over 40 years! There are currently a coulple for sale on www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk

PM me if you have any specific questions




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I know this feed is 17 years old but would anyone be able to give some in depth advice and details on a cinder 22. I've search for help to no avail.

Nikki
 
DownWest said:
Basic data https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cinder-22

The previous post #7 sounds pretty good for experience and reading the other thread about buying a boat would help.
If you are buying, condition is everything, such boats are worth very little now, but you might find one that has been looked after. They do sound fun to sail.
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DownWest said:
Basic data https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cinder-22

The previous post #7 sounds pretty good for experience and reading the other thread about buying a boat would help.
If you are buying, condition is everything, such boats are worth very little now, but you might find one that has been looked after. They do sound fun to sail.
Click to expand...


So I actually bought a cinder 22 in 2019 end of sailing season and then lockdown started and she sat for 20 months in storage.

I cant find information like stop cock locations. How to get 1GM Yanmar engine to work after 12 months.

The previous owner wanst high on his maintenance and as it my first boat I'm trying to absorb every inch of information on this fantastic yet frustrating little boat.

Again the web gives me certain specs but no blueprint or models to get my bearings from.

Thanks again
Nikki

No
 
Doubt there was ever any documentation that would help you. The Yanmar would not be the original engine anyway. If you are looking for the water inlet seacock, just follow the water pipe that goes into the water pump at the bottom right of the engine and you will find the seacock.. Same if it has plumbed in toilet. There may also be seacocks for the cockpit drains and the galley sink. These are very simple boats, but after 50 years owners may well have changed things so you just have to explore what you have.

As for the engine. If you don't know its history, then change the oil and filter and the fuel filter. Bleed the fuel lines right up to the injector. Relatively easy to do because you can turn the engine over by hand with the decompressor lever lifted while you crack the unions open. check the anode which is in the cylinder just above the starter motor - often forgotten.. Check all the electrical connections back to the panel including pulling apart the fuse block in the loom to make sure the connections are good. To start, press the button in the engine control and open the lever about 3/4 and press the starter. Although they are simple engines they have their little foibles. Definitely get the handbook.

If you have not had a diesel before worth getting an engineer to come to the boat with you and go over the engine to start it and explain what is what.
 
Ah, another Covid victim...
Couple of years ago I got a 1GM back in service after 10 yrs of being parked with no care. Had some corrosion in the head and required a new valve seat. Yours idle for twelve months doesn't sound so bad.. Really depends on how much damp was around it. If it turns over with the decompressor lifted and shows decent compression with it down, likely you will get a result. Do check the oil pipe that runs just under the water pump for corrosion. Our was completely rotted.
Just seen that Tranona has posted and filled in the bits I hadn't got to....

If you do need some bits, we eventually pulled it out for other reasons and it is in the shed.
DW
 
Tranona said:
Doubt there was ever any documentation that would help you. The Yanmar would not be the original engine anyway. If you are looking for the water inlet seacock, just follow the water pipe that goes into the water pump at the bottom right of the engine and you will find the seacock.. Same if it has plumbed in toilet. There may also be seacocks for the cockpit drains and the galley sink. These are very simple boats, but after 50 years owners may well have changed things so you just have to explore what you have.

As for the engine. If you don't know its history, then change the oil and filter and the fuel filter. Bleed the fuel lines right up to the injector. Relatively easy to do because you can turn the engine over by hand with the decompressor lever lifted while you crack the unions open. check the anode which is in the cylinder just above the starter motor - often forgotten.. Check all the electrical connections back to the panel including pulling apart the fuse block in the loom to make sure the connections are good. To start, press the button in the engine control and open the lever about 3/4 and press the starter. Although they are simple engines they have their little foibles. Definitely get the handbook.

If you have not had a diesel before worth getting an engineer to come to the boat with you and go over the engine to start it and explain what is what.
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I'm going up tomorrow to have another crack at it.

Thank you very much for the information you did give. Unfortunately my manual crank socket is bent and the handle doesn't stay in place long enough to crank it more than twice.

The boats very dry the Anode I must admit I never knew where it was so I just check that. My picture is too large to attach to this thread also.

Your last statement said the lever 3/4 which one sorry I have a few levers connected places.
 
DownWest said:
Ah, another Covid victim...
Couple of years ago I got a 1GM back in service after 10 yrs of being parked with no care. Had some corrosion in the head and required a new valve seat. Yours idle for twelve months doesn't sound so bad.. Really depends on how much damp was around it. If it turns over with the decompressor lifted and shows decent compression with it down, likely you will get a result. Do check the oil pipe that runs just under the water pump for corrosion. Our was completely rotted.
Just seen that Tranona has posted and filled in the bits I hadn't got to....

If you do need some bits, we eventually pulled it out for other reasons and it is in the shed.
DW
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There is no rot from what can be seen but cinders are hard to get in and about very tight.

I'll have a check tomorrow so I may take you up on the offer of some parts! Save a trip to john deer !
 
NikkiCinder said:
I'm going up tomorrow to have another crack at it.

Thank you very much for the information you did give. Unfortunately my manual crank socket is bent and the handle doesn't stay in place long enough to crank it more than twice.

The boats very dry the Anode I must admit I never knew where it was so I just check that. My picture is too large to attach to this thread also.

Your last statement said the lever 3/4 which one sorry I have a few levers connected places.
Click to expand...
The control lever in the cockpit. Depending on which type you have you either depress a button or pull it out which disengages the gear linkage so you can run the engine in neutral. Doubt you will be able to start it manually anyway, but it is useful to be able to turn the engine if bleeding the fuel. Suggest you try to start it first before messing about. Turn it over on the starter with the decompression lever (the little one on top of the engine) lifted for a few seconds as this gets oil moving around. Then drop it and try the starter again. Best to turn the water off at the seacock as too much cranking can result in water flooding the engine. As soon as it fires, move the cockpit control lever back and open the seacock. I lived with one for 15 years and it was always an instant starter and very reliable.
 
NikkiCinder said:
There is no rot from what can be seen but cinders are hard to get in and about very tight.

I'll have a check tomorrow so I may take you up on the offer of some parts! Save a trip to john deer !
Click to expand...
Hello I have a Cinder 22 I bought her a year ago last June. Didn’t see your post then. If you want to make contact I am happy to talk. I am about ready to sail mine soon. I am also in contact with the older owner that sailed her on the south coast. Joanthan
 
Hi all just new to sailing and just bought first boat cinder 22 bit of work to do to make her livable but two weeks in already a difference in her.
 
Forget the Cinder and get a hurley 22 . A better boat all round IMHO and of course the are a lot more around .
 
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