Chum

[zoidberg]

This is one of the better 'congested' anchorages that Jester types would do well to mark on their P'Plans......
....both for going and coming.

 

[Poignard]

Chum or Angel in the UK, I think.

What you call Chum is Rubby Dubby in the UK
(except the cool dictionary now tells me it is urban argot for sex in a shower, well I never)

I thought Chum was a trade name. Although why would anyone call something that on a dark, wet and stormy night is doing its best to mangle your fingers, a Chum?

 

[thinwater]

Chum or Angel in the UK, I think.

What you call Chum is Rubby Dubby in the UK
(except the cool dictionary now tells me it is urban argot for sex in a shower, well I never)

Angel is UK. We'll add that to the list.

But can you find ANY of these in a dictionary? Please?

(from the Oxford dictionary)

\chum1
noun
informal

1A close friend.
‘she shared the cake with her chums’
‘an old school chum’

2Used as a friendly or familiar form of address between men or boys.
‘it's your own fault, chum’

I like kellet because as near as I can find, it doesn't mean anything else. It is specific. That is a useful characteristic in a word.

 

[zoidberg]

My dear Drew 'Thinwater',

Prompted by your query regarding failure to find a dictionary 'maritime' definition for CHUM as an anchoring weight, I had a peek into your Merriam-Webster ( which has been responsible for many abuses of our English language over the years ). I found nothing immediately helpful regarding CHUM.

I did, however, find an interesting reference to 'FOLDEROL', meaning a 'useless object or ornament' ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/news-trend-watch/rees-mogg-pm-proposes-folderol-20190522 ) and that, to my mind, describes the device with perhaps the precision you seek.

Hence, I would be more than content for us to drop the ambiguous and vexatious use of 'CHUM', preferring the much more descriptive 'FOLDEROL'.......

I am, sir, your obedient servant

 

[Kukri]

My dear Zoidberg,

It pains me to have to inform you that you are entirely mistaken.

“Chum” is as Poignard correctly states, above, the trade name of a chain slider patented by an ingenious Scotsman; a very fine specimen has recently been illustrated in these pages, here:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?519510-Resurrecting-an-angel&highlight=Angel

but here is the top of my scruffy one:



The cast in words are:
CHUM
Frank Gibson
Gorgie
Edinburgh

Only these are “Chums”. Generic terms for lesser forms of chain slider include “Kellet” and “Angel”.

Here is a photo of page 53 of the Fourth Edition of Claud Worth’s “Yacht Cruising”, in which he describes the invention of the “kellet”, “angel” or whatever (he doesn’t call it by any of these names) and explains its use:



I respectfully submit that:

1. If you don’t follow Worth’s directions, it won’t work properly.
2. The only commercially made “kellet” or “angel” that ever did comply with Worth’s directions was the “Chum”
3. Note the weights that Worth was using. Two 40 lbs pigs of ballast, on occasion three. There is no point in faffing about with anything less. I speak from experience. If you have an intact and complete “Chum”, you will have three lead weights that fit onto it. If you do not then you must add an equivalent weight.

I will be happy to be corrected but to the best of my knowledge none of the many anchor experts has ever tested a “Chum” or indeed any slider made to Worth’s pattern with the weights Worth advises. They have all dangled a fishing weight off their chain, found it hard to retrieve, and found that it makes no difference.

Well, “duh”...

 

[Kukri]

I note that some use chums/angels or kellets to advantage, or say they find them useful - call it advantageous.

I wonder what prompted the use, in the first place - what manifestation demanded a solution. They are an extra bit of kit, they can be a bit fiddly to deploy - so what makes them worth the effort

Did the anchor drag? is the yacht simply more stable, how is the device used (suspended or on the bottom). How has the success of the chum been defined etc.

I'm not doubting the effectiveness claimed - just looking for education.

Jonathan

You need to read Claud Worth’s “Yacht Cruising”. It was “the yachtsman’s Bible” from 1911 to 1947 when Hiscock’s “Cruising under sail” was published, and it’s really rather good. He did an awful lot of sailing in conditions that most of us wouldn’t fancy even in modern yachts, and he regularly used the offshore anchorages like Dungeness and the Downs that we don’t use now, because of course he had no engine before 1905 or so. One of his inventions was the chain slider and weight.

 

[thinwater]

My dear Drew 'Thinwater',

Prompted by your query regarding failure to find a dictionary 'maritime' definition for CHUM as an anchoring weight, I had a peek into your Merriam-Webster ( which has been responsible for many abuses of our English language over the years ). I found nothing immediately helpful regarding CHUM.

I did, however, find an interesting reference to 'FOLDEROL', meaning a 'useless object or ornament' ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/news-trend-watch/rees-mogg-pm-proposes-folderol-20190522 ) and that, to my mind, describes the device with perhaps the precision you seek.

Hence, I would be more than content for us to drop the ambiguous and vexatious use of 'CHUM', preferring the much more descriptive 'FOLDEROL'.......

I am, sir, your obedient servant

The difference is that we can find folderol in all of the major dictionaries. Thus, the meaning of the word is agreed.

I'm just puzzled that what I think we all thought was a common item is so apparently undefined.

Wiki defines anchor sentinel and kellet, but not chum or angel.

Minn's answer, IMO, was dead on. Thank You. Like Kleenex, it Chum a trade name. Cool. I suppose that means we need to capitalize Chum from now on.

 

[Kukri]

Thank you!

Before I acquired my Chum (on eBay, from a lady who had no idea what it was!) I used a couple of chain sliders, one galvanised effort from Davey &Co and one German bronze one, but neither of them slid on the chain properly, because they were not semicircular in cross section,, with up to three 28lbs pigs of lead ballast on strops. The Chum is much better. My way of going about using it is to anchor, then rig the Chum, and to recover the Chum before starting on the anchor. Pick it up by the handle and it unlatches.

 

[thinwater]

Thank you!

Before I acquired my Chum (on eBay, from a lady who had no idea what it was!) I used a couple of chain sliders, one galvanised effort from Davey &Co and one German bronze one, but neither of them slid on the chain properly, because they were not semicircular in cross section,, with up to three 28lbs pigs of lead ballast on strops. The Chum is much better. My way of going about using it is to anchor, then rig the Chum, and to recover the Chum before starting on the anchor. Pick it up by the handle and it unlatches.

How do you rig the chum and pigs? Leaning over the bow, reaching down to the chain? Sounds impossibly strenuous, so please explain. I must miss understand.

 

[LadyInBed]

How do you rig the chum and pigs? Leaning over the bow, reaching down to the chain? Sounds impossibly strenuous, so please explain. I must miss understand.

It has been my experience that my Chum (I use chum as it's a short word and easy to spell) is difficult to 'slide' down a deployed chain rode, so I attach it as I deploy the chain.
On a mixed rode, the Chum will slide down the rope.
I did try making a saddle for the Chum to slide under but it wasn't very successful, I think made it too small.

 

[zoidberg]

My dear Zoidberg,

It pains me to have to inform you that you are entirely mistaken....... “Chum” is as Poignard correctly states,

Here is a photo of page 53 of the Fourth Edition of Claud Worth’s “Yacht Cruising”, in which he describes the invention of the “kellet”, “angel” or whatever (he doesn’t call it by any of these names) and explains its use:

Fascinating! And I'm quite content to be 'brought up short' and 'taken aback'.....
However, given that the thing seems to be an Invention O' The De'il in Non-Conformist Edinburgh, and I am for all my sins an Egalitarian Weegie, I rather think I shall continue to call it a 'Folderol'.
It has a certain 'je ne sais quoi' about it.....

Now, will you write to Merriam-Webster and the OED, or shall I?

On another tack. your page from 'Yacht Cruising' is intriguing. I shall now hunt down a copy. Just last year, in La Trinite-Sur-Mer just across the road from the harbour office, I found a display of Wichard boat-jewellery and this 'saddle shackle'.... I suspect it is not intended as a traveller, but I brought one home to play with, as can be seen.

 

[thinwater]

... Now, will you write to Merriam-Webster and the OED, or shall I?.../QUOTE]

No need. Although OED and Websters do include a few trade names that have become synonyms for the generic (Kleenex, Nylon, Kevlar), I think they would pass on something so obscure, since kellet or sentinel are common usage. This archaic reference will be forgotten soon enough.

 

[zoidberg]

My dear Drew,

I remain happily wedded to 'folderol'

It works for me.

Should I ever feel the need for a large lump of redundant lead, there's a church roof not far away.

 

[thinwater]

My dear Drew,

I remain happily wedded to 'folderol'

It works for me.

Should I ever feel the need for a large lump of redundant lead, there's a church roof not far away.

Fun stuff!!

Who's kidding who, boats are full of folderol, whats-its, thingamathangers, and "that rope, the one over there!"

Only slightly more seriously, "A Sea of Words" by O'Brian is a good read. Some you know, some will educate, and some will make you laugh.

 

[zoidberg]

Ta! I shall go hunt....

 

[grumpy_o_g]

.... or kellet, or angel, or Buddy....


...There are those around who still believe in this sort of mumbo-jumbo and, for now at least, we still live in a nation that permits such strange belief systems in the cause of freedom of religion. For it is an Act of Faith. ..

Those who have faith will get a good night's sleep though, whilst the rest of use are up every two hours and in between are just lying awake listening for a change in the waves slapping against the hull, the wind in the rigging, the way the boat's moving, people shouting, engines running, the dreaded anchor alarm going off (not that I know anyone who actually trusts it the anchor alarm anyway), etc.
.

 

[Kukri]

How do you rig the chum and pigs? Leaning over the bow, reaching down to the chain? Sounds impossibly strenuous, so please explain. I must miss understand.

It goes pretty much without saying that if the anchor chain is leading straight down I won’t bother rigging the Chum. If the chain is growing (note the Term of Art, here!) ahead a bit it’s easy to hook the Chum on. It’s a bit harder to do up a shackle of course. The slider won’t be going anywhere because I will have belayed it’s line whilst I add the weights. Since my Chum lost its own lead discs which had a radial slot in them with a wider central hole so they slotted in one above the other and were retained by the central stem I use lead ballast pigs on strops. Must make it some proper weights! It’s not hard to bowline the strops on and then drop the weights over. Having done that I just slack the line away until the weight is on the bottom in the lulls.

To recover, pull it up to the stem head again, take the weights off and get it on deck.

Much easier than a second anchor.

 

[Neeves]

To recover, pull it up to the stem head again, take the weights off and get it on deck.

Much easier than a second anchor.

Some people have natural urge to turn this, almost, amicable thread into a full blown anchor thread


Now - I don't want to encourage you but if you insist on your current practices in the face of much contrary advise

For your lead weights

Try a sponge cake baking tin (or Christmas/Dundee cake tin (Zoidberg and I will both prefer the Scots association with anchoring equipment, CQR, Delta, Bruce, Knox)), use it to contain the cast molten lead. Cut the slot, hacksaw, and hole, hole saw, when it has cooled down. Making a recess and a protrusion so they nest. Use a hole saw to cut the recess (and chisel to dig it out) - use the hole saw of a size for bun/muffin tin to cast the protrusion, drilled, that you will weld onto the top of each biscuit. I have found that when molten lead cools it shrinks and allows the casting to fall out easily - however I might have simply been lucky and it is easy enough to run a blow torch over the baking tin so the contact lead melts and the pig falls out through gravity. Molten lead is HOT - leather welding gloves, decent overalls, tongs and keep wives, children and pets at a distance. Scrap merchants or your local church roof are good source of lead.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

It is odd that a simple device, that only reactionaries use, has so many names, chum, angel, sentinel, kellet - and the list grows daily. Contrarily and luckily the other piece of kit has only one name - an anchor.

Jonathan

 

[Poignard]

... lead discs which had a radial slot in them with a wider central hole so they slotted in one above the other and were retained by the central stem ....

That is a beautiful piece of descriptive writing, if you don't mind my saying so.