"Choosing a gaff rigger"

[Sando]

I see there is nice article in this months PBO regarding the "Plastic Gaffers" but then again I am biased...... ;-) Yes she is worth every penny! Sails like a dream....

I've posted some great pics of last weeks NGOA cruise at with "Juno" and "Gypsy Rowena"

http://www.norfolk-gypsy.com/gypsy_pictures.htm

So far so good this season....

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.norfolk-gypsy.com/gypsy_pictures.htm

 

[Mirelle]

Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

Choosing a gaffer?

Yes, the Norfolk Gypsy is one of the nicer plastiques. Pricey, though, are'nt they?

For Heaven's sake, why not buy a REAL one, not a plastic toy!

Get thee along to Brightingsea on Saturday, park yourself near Bateman's Tower at 09.30 and see what it's REALLY all about.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[max_power]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

Just thought that I would mention how you always seem to leave a nasty taste in your posts when mentioning plastic boats. Is this really necessary ?

There is friendly banter and then there is your flavour. I enjoyed the pictures and I am sure they all had a great time. But it's just not good enough for you is it ? You just have to have a swipe.

I had the great misfortune to meet similar attitudes at the East Coast Old gaffers. There is a hard core that really do detest any kind of sailing other than their own gaffer/wooden type and bemoan the fact that there should be any other type of boat, or sailor around.. Again, this is not friendly banter but downright disrespect to fellow sailors.

I feel very sorry for the decent hardworking people I met in that organisation who fortunately do not all share your pathetic views.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

I fear that you may have misunderstood me.

The title of the original posting was "Choosing a Gaff Cutter".

To see what I am driving at, take a look here:

http://www.norfolk-gypsy.com/classic_fiberglass_boats.htm

Owners of this particular boat, which as I have already said, is quite a nice one, but very expensive, seem to be running a campaign to keep the resale price high.

If the above post is quite un-related, then I am mistaken and I must apologise, but to post a message entitled "Choosing a Gaff Cutter" out of the Blue and devote it to saying what a fine boat you own seems, in the light of the website I have cited, a little bit of a co-incidence.

Meanwhile, nice old boats, for sale at a fraction of the price, are falling into disrepair because people will not take them on, being scared of "the maintenance", which I think is a pity.

As you might be aware, the OGA amended its Rules, some years ago, eliminating the "little d" measurement in the TCHF, to allow GRP boats to race on level terms with wooden ones. If, which I doubt, in view of your comments, you are a member, you can check the archives and you will find that I voted in favour of that amendment, because, unlike you, I have shown my real name in my profile.

I have friends with all sorts of boats, including Beneteaus and including plastic gaffers - one even has a Norfolk Oyster!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Mirelle]

By way of example

The current Classic Boat mentions that there is a Deben Four Tonner, quite repairable, lying at Downs Road in Maldon, free to anyone who will take her on, failing which it is the chainsaw.

In terms of sailing performance and accomodation, more boat than the Norfolk Oyster, designed by one of the finest designers of the traditional school, built by an excellent builder, and you could have her afloat for not a lot of money.

If she gets cut up because people wanting a small gaff rigged boat think their only option is plastic, it will be a pity.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Sando]

You just don\'t get it do you!

I like sailing. I'm hardworking. I have a young family. I don't have time to tinker with high maintenance boats. Although I do appreciate them, and our heritage. I don’t have time to get into any great academic arguments regarding the merits of wood or glass.

I'm very proud to have worked and saved very hard for a number of years to buy my expensive, handmade, quality Norfolk Gypsy - whether it be plastic or not. I find you comments unsavoury. Re-sale values indeed - what a lot of old B****ks!!

The site is meant to be fun!!! and to further any interest in sailing any sailboat for that matter – you obviously haven’t read the article by John Ricket on the site “Sail Gaff Rigged” or looked at the picture galleries.

I built the website on behalf of the association (5 months slog) only to be criticised on its content. YOU and I mean YOU, are the only person have passed any criticism. I have had complements from around the globe regarding the website and the information it provides regarding the association.

You’re obviously the colour of my hull with envy…………… ;-)


<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.norfolk-gypsy.com/gypsy_pictures.htm

 

[Twister_Ken]

Ah. Boat rage!

Now the summer is complete.

(the great thing about the one true religion is that there are so many to choose from)

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Twister_Ken on 18/06/2003 10:47 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Sando]

Re: Ah. Boat rage!

Te He....

Trouble with old folk is they're soooooo serious

;-)

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.norfolk-gypsy.com/gypsy_pictures.htm

 

[ianwright]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

I doubt that 'Mirelle' deserves your attack, he likes most boats, wooden, wood and epoxy,glass and plastic.
I, on the other hand think that a best boat is one made of wood by shipwrights who know how. There are some nice boats made of plastic, but most would be much better built of timber.
The reason for plastic boats is cost, thats all. Make something cheaper, even if cheaper means worse, and folk will fall over themselves to buy it . A pity, but there you go,,,,,,,,,,,,,

IanW

<hr width=100% size=1>Vertue 203, Patience

 

[bedouin]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

Sorry - but that is rubbish. Fibreglass has a lot of advantages over wood other than cost. Longevity, low maintanence and the ease of creating complex curves being just some.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jacket]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

Not to mention the lack of leaks!

And of course, a GRP boat can be a fraction of the weight, and also much stiffer, allowing better rig tension, both of which improve performance.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[GBGaffer]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

[Pedantmodeon]

'.......the ease of creating complex curves being just some.'

err. not quite I think you will find that the plastic boat has generally to be laid up in a mould which is usually taken from a wooden former/plug.

'.......And of course, a GRP boat can be a fraction of the weight...'

again not true, a plastic copy of a wooden boat would have to displace the same if it was to float to the same marks. Where plastic versions score is that they can be much stiffer than the wooden original by virtue of having a higher ballast ratio.
This is not always a good thing as it may result in a more jerky motion in a chop.

[Pedantmodeoff]

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ianwright]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

>the ease of creating complex curves <

Ah,,,,, that'll be why the plastic version of the Vertue lost it's tumblehome and sheer,,,,,,,?
Or was it to make it easy to pop it out of the mould?

IanW

<hr width=100% size=1>Vertue 203, Patience

 

[Jacket]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

If we're going to be picky:

i)Yes, a GRP mould is normally taken from a wooden plug, but that plug isn't planked in the same way as a wooden hull. Its generally strip planked, cold moulded (both of which methods are rejected by dye in the wool wooden boat nuts) or built up from blocks of solid wood carved to shape.

With carvel or clinker building there's just no way that you can build some of the shapes its possible to build in wood. Thouh of course, as Ian Wright points out, with GRP you are limited to an extent by the need to be able to remove the moulding from the plug.

ii) Who said anything about making exact copies of wooden boats? The whole point of many of these GRP gaffers is that they're trailer sailers, which means that they need to be light. So although they may look old above the water, they're generally lighter displacement with a more modern underwater profile than a wooden gaffer.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: On balance

Jacket is right. The reason these plastic, specially designed, hint of old gaffer boats are successful is the trailer sailing factor. That and the low maintenance.

For those that are fortunate enough to live near their mooring wood offers an alternative. Maintenance can be carried out throughout the season, on pleasant evenings, in small bites. But most of us live in the sea-less wilderness and for us a wooden boat would be cruelty to the boat.

Of course there are dyed in the wool OGA members who no doubt live in thatched caves and travel to the boat on horseback but that's hardly common is it?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[GBGaffer]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

Who's being picky?

My comment commented on comments about Ian Wright's comment where he WAS comparing building methods for the same type or class of craft. I have no axe to grind in either case, but just wished correct the view that it it is easier to produce complex forms in GRP and the commonly held mis-conception about plastic/wood relative displacements.

The major reason for building in GRP is to reduce repeat build costs for small to medium volume runs as you only have to do the real shipwrighting once.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jeremy_W]

Re: You just don\'t get it do you!

>>>I like sailing. I'm hardworking. I have a young family.
And on precisely what basis do you assume that "Mirelle" hates sailing; is a loafing layabout; and doesn't have a young family? I think we should be told!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[max_power]

Re: Aha, the Norfolk Gypsy Appreciation League....

' Get a real one and not a plastic toy '

are the words I think you chose to describe Sando's boat.


I am afraid that you’re response does not wash with me – and no doubt many others who know you from this and other forums. Although all of us say and do silly things at times, particularly when we are tired or under pressure, you deliberately belittled Sando's achievements which is your normal arrogant pompous response to anyone who does not ‘measure up’ to you’re ideals in sailing, and probably life.

If you had any genuine feelings you would have made a direct apology to Sando , but clearly he is not going to get one.

With regard to the East Coast OGA I am aware of the rule changes concerning GRP boats that have gaff rig. Although you do allow non gaff rig boats, which seems rather odd ,providing they are made of wood and designed and built before a certain age. However, my impression was that GRP boats are not made welcome particularly as you have a song which degenerates GRP boats entitled the ‘white boat song’ which obviously causes offence to people within the OGA. This probably explains why many join the OGA and only ever attend once.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[snowleopard]

old gaffers or old fogeys?!

loved libby purves' description in a ym article a few years back of attending an old ggaafers meet. she was washing up in the cockpit in a plastic bucket when the woman rafted alongside starts tutting and offers to lend her a canvas one!

there's always a faction who insist on the 'real thing' and can't accept that by combining a classic design with modern technology you can improve on the original. i own a plastic replica E-type which is in every practical respect superior to the original but the sneering i get from the owners of 'genuine' rustbuckets has to be seen to be believed!

<hr width=100% size=1>