Choice of Sail Cloth

[vyv_cox]

Yes, quoted for vektron and dacron main last month and price difference from all lofts was ~35%.

When I bought mine I tried to assess the benefits of going for the more expensive option. When I bought the boat the dacron genoa was about three years old and pretty much shot. I struggled on with it for a couple of years but the shape was terrible. I took delivery of the Vectran (now Vektron) main and genoa in June 1999, making them 15 - 16 years old, since when I have sailed extensively, cruising for half the year since 2004. I had the stitching redone about five years ago and the sailmaker advised that the cloth was in excellent condition. My own assessment is that they have not stretched at all.

May I also chip in and suggest its not all about the material its also a lot about the cut, I would recommend a Radial cut regardless of the sail, but remember is much more sewing for the sail maker so will also increase the cost!!

Hood told me that cross-cut was better for a furling genoa to keep the loads along the warp for any reefed position. However, they advised at the time that they did this with Vectran but not dacron.

 

[BabaYaga]

I would recommend a Radial cut regardless of the sail

When I researched this a few years ago I found that most sailmakers advised against combining polyester cloth/dacron and radial cuts, with exception for when the cloth is strengthened in some way in the warp orientation. Such as by weaving technique (North Radian), by mixing in other types of fibre (Vektron, Hydra-Net, dyneema) or of course by various laminates.
I settled for North Radian in hope for sails with a long working life in combination with minimal shape deterioration. Time will tell...

 

[KellysEye]

>Discussed here last week... Hood cloth is no more..
>>KellsEye refuses to believe such inconvenient facts unfortunately.
>>>.... whatever the topic

And exactly what facts and topic would those be? Hood sails exists and I showed the URL http://hood-sails.com/ Kemp sails does not own Hood it produces Hood sails under licence.

Kemp Sails takes on Hoods Brand

Effective from 1st December 2006 Hood Sailmakers will be operated under license in the United Kingdom by Kemp Sails Limited. The full Hood Sailmakers product range manufactured in the internationally acclaimed Hood Polyester Sailcloth and Hood Vektron™ Sailcloth, will be offered alongside the existing Kemp Sails range of cruising and racing products.

The existing Hood Sailmakers loft in Lymington will be closed down and the production servicing and support of the Hood Sailmakers customers will be continued from Kemp Sails Sailmaking facility in Wareham, Dorset.

Existing Hood and Kemp customers will experience a complete continuity in service and standard of customer care as Kemp Sails will fulfil all current and future orders for Hood Sailmakers UK customers.
Both Hood and Kemp Sail brands will be exhibited at London’s ExCeL based boat show from 5-14th January 2007, on stand N115.

If Hood has any sense it will do what Branson with Virgin did and licence their cloth to sailmakers around the world and make a shed load of money as Branson did

 

[[3889]]

When I bought mine I tried to assess the benefits of going for the more expensive option. When I bought the boat the dacron genoa was about three years old and pretty much shot. I struggled on with it for a couple of years but the shape was terrible. I took delivery of the Vectran (now Vektron) main and genoa in June 1999, making them 15 - 16 years old, since when I have sailed extensively, cruising for half the year since 2004. I had the stitching redone about five years ago and the sailmaker advised that the cloth was in excellent condition. My own assessment is that they have not stretched at all.

Well that's reassuring as I've plumped for Vektro/an (I was under the impression different lofts used different spelling?). I bought a dacron genny in 2014 and now it is hardly any better than the 2007 sail it replaced.

 

[BabaYaga]

If Hood has any sense it will do what Branson with Virgin did and licence their cloth to sailmakers around the world and make a shed load of money as Branson did

Seems they already do (or did).
As evident from this link

http://www.hoodsailmakersuk.com/about-us-mainmenu-4

Hood no longer produces sailcloth. Hood Vektron is produced by Contender, Dimension Polyant and Challenge.
Text says Hood HAD a patent for the Vektron process, might well have expired, since the cloth was introduced in 1995.

 

[bitbaltic]

And exactly what facts and topic would those be?

The fact that this bit of your decade-old cut and paste:

the internationally acclaimed Hood Polyester Sailcloth and Hood Vektron™ Sailcloth, will be offered

Is now WRONG. As I told you last time around, the factory that made it CLOSED four or five years ago. Hood sailmakers- as distinct from the now closed down Hood Textiles- cannot get the cloth you treasure so much. Let me repeat that- Hood can't get 'hood' cloth any more and nor can anyone else because nobody makes it anymore.

There you go, that is exactly the fact you are wrong about. Why not ring Hood (the sailmakers) and ask them to send you a sample of Hood Textiles (Ireland) Limited cloth and see if they can do that for you, now, in 2016?

 

[Tranona]

>Discussed here last week... Hood cloth is no more..
>>KellsEye refuses to believe such inconvenient facts unfortunately.
>>>.... whatever the topic

And exactly what facts and topic would those be? Hood sails exists and I showed the URL http://hood-sails.com/ Kemp sails does not own Hood it produces Hood sails under licence.

Kemp Sails takes on Hoods Brand

Effective from 1st December 2006 Hood Sailmakers will be operated under license in the United Kingdom by Kemp Sails Limited. The full Hood Sailmakers product range manufactured in the internationally acclaimed Hood Polyester Sailcloth and Hood Vektron™ Sailcloth, will be offered alongside the existing Kemp Sails range of cruising and racing products.

The existing Hood Sailmakers loft in Lymington will be closed down and the production servicing and support of the Hood Sailmakers customers will be continued from Kemp Sails Sailmaking facility in Wareham, Dorset.

Existing Hood and Kemp customers will experience a complete continuity in service and standard of customer care as Kemp Sails will fulfil all current and future orders for Hood Sailmakers UK customers.
Both Hood and Kemp Sail brands will be exhibited at London’s ExCeL based boat show from 5-14th January 2007, on stand N115.

If Hood has any sense it will do what Branson with Virgin did and licence their cloth to sailmakers around the world and make a shed load of money as Branson did

Old news and no longer the case as far as the cloth is concerned as several people have told you.

You clearly have no idea what business is about with your fatuous suggestion that they should "do a Branson". They already have as that 10 year old press release says. They have discontinued manufacturing sails in the UK and licensed the name to Rob Kemp - exactly what you are proposing. As for the cloth, which they no longer make, it is now a commodity item also made by other manufacturers. While I am sure Rob values having the name doubt that it is wild money spinner. There are many high quality sailmakers in the UK and Hood gave up because their business was shrinking under the weight of the competition.

When will you stop peddling all this out of date nonsense and post things that are relevant to 2016?

 

[vyv_cox]

Well that's reassuring as I've plumped for Vektro/an (I was under the impression different lofts used different spelling?). I bought a dacron genny in 2014 and now it is hardly any better than the 2007 sail it replaced.

Vectran is a fibre whose name is registered to DuPont. Apparently they objected to use of the name by Hood, who simply changed the spelling to Vektron.

 

[Javelin]

Kind of depends what sort of sailing you're going to do.
I'd work on 10 years for main and 8 for the jib in reality.
Simplistic choice;
Light and fast go laminated.
Long distance go Hydranet.
Something in the middle go Radian (North)

 

[Slowtack]

Went for Hydranet furling headsail for seasons back.
Bent it on again today, my helper though it was a new sail.
I am very happy with it as regards performance and resilience/durability

 

[KellysEye]

>Is now WRONG. As I told you last time around, the factory that made it CLOSED four or five years ago. Hood sailmakers- as distinct from the now closed down Hood Textiles- cannot get the cloth you treasure so much. Let me repeat that- Hood can't get 'hood' cloth any more and nor can anyone else because nobody makes it anymore.

So why is this claim being made: the internationally acclaimed Hood Polyester Sailcloth and Hood Vektron™ Sailcloth, will be offered. If that was not true then Kemp sails would be breaking the Trade Descriptions Act which I doubt they would because of customer complaints.

 

[Tranona]

>Is now WRONG. As I told you last time around, the factory that made it CLOSED four or five years ago. Hood sailmakers- as distinct from the now closed down Hood Textiles- cannot get the cloth you treasure so much. Let me repeat that- Hood can't get 'hood' cloth any more and nor can anyone else because nobody makes it anymore.

So why is this claim being made: the internationally acclaimed Hood Polyester Sailcloth and Hood Vektron™ Sailcloth, will be offered. If that was not true then Kemp sails would be breaking the Trade Descriptions Act which I doubt they would because of customer complaints.

Simple. Because that press release is 10 years old. Hood probably still owns the Vectron trade mark, but now make it clear it uses Vektran. As you have been told it id no longer made by Hood, nor is it unique to Hood sails - other sailmakers use Vektran cloths.

At the end of the day it is no big deal. If you went buying sails now you would be presented with a far wider range of materials, styles and cuts then when you bought your last sails. Your simplistic method of holding the cloth up to the light as a test of quality is totally irrelevant.

Just follow these threads, read the information on sailmakers' websites and you can get yourself up to date with the complexities of modern sails.

 

[RobF]

>Is now WRONG. As I told you last time around, the factory that made it CLOSED four or five years ago. Hood sailmakers- as distinct from the now closed down Hood Textiles- cannot get the cloth you treasure so much. Let me repeat that- Hood can't get 'hood' cloth any more and nor can anyone else because nobody makes it anymore.

So why is this claim being made: the internationally acclaimed Hood Polyester Sailcloth and Hood Vektron™ Sailcloth, will be offered. If that was not true then Kemp sails would be breaking the Trade Descriptions Act which I doubt they would because of customer complaints.

Just to try and close down some of your nonsense...

The press release from 2006 is as follows:
Effective from 1st December 2006 Hood Sailmakers will be operated under license in the United Kingdom by Kemp Sails Limited. The full Hood Sailmakers product range manufactured in the internationally acclaimed Hood Polyester Sailcloth and Hood Vektron™ Sailcloth, will be offered alongside the existing Kemp Sails range of cruising and racing products. (from http://www.hoodsailmakersuk.com/news-mainmenu-11/4-kemp-sails-takes-on-hoods-brand)

If you look at the Kemp Sails website (http://www.kempsails.com/yacht-sails/sail-fabric.html) you will note that they source their sail fabric from 4 main suppliers. Dimension Polyant (German), Contender Sailcloth (Dutch), Bainbridge International (UK/American) and Challenge Sailcloth (American). You will note that Kemp Sails do not use Hood Polyester and Hood Vektron because, as EVERYONE else seems to know, the Hood Textiles Ltd factory in Ireland went into receivership last year (http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Hood-Textiles-Limited-42763). If you pay the €5 you can even get the Receivers Notice of Cessation!

(and sincere apologies to the OP for the thread hijack).

 

[KellysEye]

Can somebody explain why Oyster cruising yachts all have Hood logos on their sails now and always have done, if you sell luxury yachts you want the best sail cloth, somebody must be making it.

 

[Pete7]

Can somebody explain why Oyster cruising yachts all have Hood logos on their sails now and always have done, if you sell luxury yachts you want the best sail cloth, somebody must be making it.

Oh dear, because Kemps have the rights to using the Hood Sailmakers logo on a sail they make. The same way Kraft have the rights to the Cadburys name even thought he UK factor has gone.

 

[Tranona]

Can somebody explain why Oyster cruising yachts all have Hood logos on their sails now and always have done, if you sell luxury yachts you want the best sail cloth, somebody must be making it.

Because their sails are made by Kemps using the Hood brand, but using the cloth specified by the owner.

When are you going to understand that Hood is just a brand and other sailmakers make equally high quality sails using a range of materials and cuts to suit the buyer's requirements.

Hood brand does not have a monopoly on quality.

 

[RobF]

Or, put another way.

Oyster boats have Hood branded sails

Hood branded sails are actually made by Kemp sails (but under the Hood brand)

Hood branded sails are not made of Hood sail cloth because the Hood Textiles ltd has gone into receivership.

Hood branded sails (by Kemp) are made using one of the four cloth manufacturers used by Kemp - as mentioned in my earlier post.

 

[Daydream believer]

Can somebody explain why Oyster cruising yachts all have Hood logos on their sails now and always have done, if you sell luxury yachts you want the best sail cloth, somebody must be making it.

Oyster made their own sails for a while; but not being economical they sold the outfit to Dolphin & did buy from Dolphin for at least a short while

 

[solosails]

Phew, glad that all got sorted out!

The manufacturers have upped their game recently with the lower end markets improving the quality of their offerings, so now the choice is not hugely different between the manufacturers, and it is more down to the cut choice to suit the sailors needs.

However, there are only a few manufacturers of sailcloth, so if the cloth has a brand name you cannot find online or in a forum, then there is a high chance it is a re-branded cloth that the sailmaker has chosen to rename so that you cannot compare quotes on a like for like basis - be aware of this - always ask the sailmaker to name the manufacturer and original name of the sail cloth.

We tend to stick with Dimension Polyant, not only to keep the choices simple, but we find their cloth to be consistently high quality with good fibre tenacity test results.

Contender and many other manufacturers also make very good quality fabrics as well. In the end it is down to the sail-maker's or owner's personal choice and experience with the fabrics available.

If in doubt, just give the sailmaker a call, they will be more than happy to help clear up any questions about the cloth choices.

Good luck!