Choice of Sail Cloth

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Gryphon2

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I need a new genoa for my Ben 423 and have had quotes from North, One, Hyde and Hood for similar money. I need a sail that will last as long as the old one that was 12 years old and took us on a circumnavigation. The quotes are full of technical jargon that means little to me There does seem to be an obvious difference in weight from 7. 2oz to 9.5oz. My question is whether weight is really what matters for longevity or should I be influenced by something else?
 
Go with Hood the cloth has the lowest stretch factor and the seams are triple stitched. We sailed 10,000nms with Hood sails and had no stretch, both main and mizzen were 8oz cloth and Genoa 5oz cloth as were the twin headsails for the Twistle rig.
 
My Hood Vectran mainsail and genoa are in 6 oz cloth. They are both heavy, clearly far more bulky than the lighter Dacron sails we see all around us and they struggle to set in light winds. However, they are about 14 years old and remain in perfect shape despite considerable use. I spoke to Kemp (who now do Hood sails) about perhaps going down a thickness for a new genoa to overcome these problems but they advised against it for cruising. Vectran is of course far stronger and more stable than Dacron, which is presumably why the thickness is rather less than you have posted. I would not wish to go any heavier.
 
Gryphon2 said:
I need a new genoa for my Ben 423 and have had quotes from North, One, Hyde and Hood for similar money. I need a sail that will last as long as the old one that was 12 years old and took us on a circumnavigation. The quotes are full of technical jargon that means little to me There does seem to be an obvious difference in weight from 7. 2oz to 9.5oz. My question is whether weight is really what matters for longevity or should I be influenced by something else?
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I cannot comment on weight but on the "something else" question I strongly recommend if selecting a woven sail and not something more expensive and exotic go for "ripstop" (offered by many, such as dimension-polylant, brainbridge etc). Low stretch clothes and not so easy to rip or destroy (because of those little many boxes that prevent this). The cloth is harder than normal dacron and weights and costs more but I believe it's worth it since you are concerned with longetivity. Of course I am not an expert on the subject, just speak out of experience by comparing by old vs new sail (well the "new" is now 6 years old already.....).
 
Go For Vectran if you can although more pricey - speak to Peter Sanders in Lymington as he made one for my Bavaria a few years ago to replace the fairly poor elvstom standard headsail and it seemed a worthwhile choice in terms of durability etc for my usage . He did explain to me at time all about weights and no doubt he would be happy to reshare knowledge but my recollection was it wasn't down to weight.
 
ashtead said:
Go For Vectran if you can although more pricey...
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I keep hearing about Vektran / HydraNet sails but can anyone give me a finger in the air estimate for the percentage extra cost using these high-tech materials entails ?

Thanks,

Boo2
 
There was a review in YM recently showing the pricing levels and the difference is typically between 30 and 50% premium. However, it is more complex than just the price difference in materials as cut and other aspects of construction can affect the final price.

As ever a discussion with the sailmaker about your requirements will get you a much better idea of the options.
 
Boo2 said:
I keep hearing about Vektran / HydraNet sails but can anyone give me a finger in the air estimate for the percentage extra cost using these high-tech materials entails ?

Thanks,

Boo2
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I bought a Hydranet inner jib a while back and I think it came in at about 35% more than decent Dacron and about twice the price of the cheaper stuff. However, take these numbers with a pinch of salt though as I never had the Dacron sail properly priced up, just the sailmaker's rough guess. It seems like a hard wearing material, but one needs to be very careful not to let these sails flap too much as they will disintegrate surprisingly quickly. TBH that has got to be one of the big advantages of a fully battened setup.
 
It is hard to know exactly which sail is best without knowing the use they will get. I bought new sails last year and the rather odd choice I made was for a Hydranet main and standard laminate jib. The Hydranet was significantly more than the laminate but my reasoning was that it was impossible to avoid flogging a main at times, as when raising and lowering, but that flogging a jib could be avoided and the previous laminate had lasted about 12 years.
 
johnalison said:
It is hard to know exactly which sail is best without knowing the use they will get. I bought new sails last year and the rather odd choice I made was for a Hydranet main and standard laminate jib. The Hydranet was significantly more than the laminate but my reasoning was that it was impossible to avoid flogging a main at times, as when raising and lowering, but that flogging a jib could be avoided and the previous laminate had lasted about 12 years.
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I don't want to teach the priest his prayers, but just in case you're new to laminates/hydranet. You can certainly look forward to a long stretch-free life even if the mainsail is not fully battened, as the weight of the boom will help dampen the flapping.

Just keep an ear out for when the sound of the sail changes from a medium-pitched flogging to a much higher-pitched snapping sound -- this is a sail killer and I've both seen laminates and hydranet quickly disintegrate when this happens. Heavy Dacron does't seem so prone to this. Get the kicker on, drop the sail, whatever, but never let this happen, even for a few minutes. As you say yourself, this also applies to the jib, even more so..

Finally, regularly adjust the leech line to eliminate any leech flutter right the way up the sail and ask your sailmaker to sort ASAP if you can't achieve this. No reason your sails won't last for years and years if you take these simple steps!
 
dom said:
I don't want to teach the priest his prayers, but just in case you're new to laminates/hydranet. You can certainly look forward to a long stretch-free life even if the mainsail is not fully battened, as the weight of the boom will help dampen the flapping.

Just keep an ear out for when the sound of the sail changes from a medium-pitched flogging to a much higher-pitched snapping sound -- this is a sail killer and I've both seen laminates and hydranet quickly disintegrate when this happens. Heavy Dacron does't seem so prone to this. Get the kicker on, drop the sail, whatever, but never let this happen, even for a few minutes. As you say yourself, this also applies to the jib, even more so..

Finally, regularly adjust the leech line to eliminate any leech flutter right the way up the sail and ask your sailmaker to sort ASAP if you can't achieve this. No reason your sails won't last for years and years if you take these simple steps!
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I think my 12 years, or about 24,000 miles with a single laminate jib gives me some experience. I was given to understand that Hydranet was more resistant to damage, which is why I chose it for the main. This sail is never allowed to flog while under way, but raising and lowering when head to wind makes some flogging unavoidable. I routinely furl/unfurl the jib in the lee of the main, so flogging doesn't occur. Anyway, I'm sure the new sails will see me out.
 
If your main is flapping and flogging for any length of time beyond about a minute or two when raising and lowering, I would suggest talking to a rigger to get low friction and fast sail handling into your running rigging, tracks etc. I can raise my main in ?20-30 seconds, lower it in maybe five or ten. Last week I tried dropping it on a run with about 15 knots behind, it fell straight into the stackpack thanks to our mainsail track and all I had to do was pull down the head standing at ther mast. When ordering new sails, thinking about the handling gear- sheets, halyards, reef lines, deck organisers, clutches, the angles of all of the above, winches, mast tracks etc is all part of the package. Buying a certain kind of sailcloth perhaps becasue your running gear means you'll spend some time flogging the resultant sail would be working the problem the wrong way round.
 
Tranona said:
There was a review in YM recently showing the pricing levels and the difference is typically between 30 and 50% premium. However, it is more complex than just the price difference in materials as cut and other aspects of construction can affect the final price.

As ever a discussion with the sailmaker about your requirements will get you a much better idea of the options.
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Yes, quoted for vektron and dacron main last month and price difference from all lofts was ~35%.
 
I would recommend HydraNet, but be aware it's going to cost you a good chunk more for HydraNet.

I got a quote for a new main from Banks Sails, the Dacron option was £3979 and the HydraNet was £4850.

May I also chip in and suggest its not all about the material its also a lot about the cut, I would recommend a Radial cut regardless of the sail, but remember is much more sewing for the sail maker so will also increase the cost!!
 
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