Chip Tuning Marine Diesels: Any experiences or thoughts

[jimduncan1]

Hi,
Just wondering whether anyone has any experience of using chip-tuning to boost performance of their Marine Diesel engines. I saw this chip for a D3 160HP which boasts an increase to that of a 190HP. I understand that the D3 160 engine is virtually the same as the 190 except for the ECU mapping but am open to correction.

The product description below comes from Chip Express (http://www.chipexpress.com/diesel-tuning-box-volvo-penta-d3-160-marine-kit-1683.html) however there appear to be several UK providers.

Appreciate any views or comments. Thanks Dave.

From Chip Express:

Power, Economy and Drivability...

Looking to improve the power, economy or drivability of your Volvo Penta D3? The CHIP Express™ tuning system is without doubt the most advanced plug-in diesel upgrade available! It works in harmony with your engine, retaining all safety functions without needing to interfere with the vehicles existing on-board computer. While most tuning companies aim to provide maximum power, our aim is to improve the overall drivability of the vehicle, making it feel smoother with a much more progressive power delivery. Our system will free your 160 Marine from its manufactures limits, letting you decide how to drive! Now with a 14 day money back guarantee and a 3 year product warranty!

Self-installation poses no problems...

With the aid of photo illustrated instructions supplied, installation can be carried out quickly and easily by anyone with competent DIY skills in about 5 to 10 minutes using simple plug-in connectors. All systems fit in the engine bay downstream from the ECU and can simply be removed without trace in a matter of minutes. Remember our quality products are backed up by an outstanding after sales service; should you require any telephone assistance during your installation we will be more than happy to help.

Intelligent, Adaptive, Multi-Map Technology...

Our microprocessor controlled tuning systems will adapt to your vehicle and refer to any pre-programmed fuel map at a rate of up to 40,000,000 instructions per second (40MHz). This allows intricate adjustments to the cars fuelling by precisely calculating the injection amount depending how the vehicle is being driven. This intelligent feature gives the unit the ability to work in harmony with your engine, providing economy or power depending on your driving requirements, a feature never before seen on plug in applications!

Kind to engines and diesel particle filters...

A further advantage of these new add-on electronic control units is their compliance with vehicle emissions standards. This new clean diesel technology works by improving combustion efficiency making soot and smoke things of the past. Because of this, installation of the tuning box system is also possible in vehicles with diesel particle filters and urea injection.

TÜV approved with C.E and ISO 9001 status...

The quality and performance of our systems is paramount. Our digital micro-processor circuited units are all manufactured using the highest quality surface mounted components contained within a compact, light weight, water resistant and robust aluminium housing. In addition only original adaptor plugs that simply plug in to existing connectors are used. Rest assured you are buying the best quality, most rigorously tested system available that has achieved TÜV and C.E approval; very few companies can boast such credentials!

More power by Adjustment...

All boxes come pre-set for optimal power and economy so adjustment is not necessary, you can simply plug-in and enjoy! However, if you require more performance the power level settings can simply be increased in small increments using the included instructions. This is particularly important to people who want the maximum power from their diesel or those who are planning to make further modifications to their vehicle.

CHIP Express™ Volvo Penta D3 160 Marine performance results:

Volvo Penta D3 Standard Power
PS-BHP Tuned Power
(After / Max) Standard Torque
Nm Tuned Torque
(After / Max)
160 Marine 163 196 / 224 340 424 / 462

"After" figures show the power your vehicle will produce on the supplied settings. "Max" figures show the power your vehicle can produce if adjusted to a higher setting. Not all vehicles will achieve "Max" figures when on a higher setting, most standard vehicles will achieve a power between "After" and "Max" figures.


Why choose a CHIP Express™ system?

• Provides a driving performance second to none

• Unlocks your vehicle's full potential using TUV certified, tested software

• C.E. approved with ISO 9001 quality assured chipset technology

• Simple plug-in fitment (no cutting of wires), easily adjusted, leaves no trace once removed

• Unlike a remap our systems cannot be detected or deleted during routine servicing

• Does not require the removal of your vehicle's original programme settings

• Produces more low down torque compared to a remap, ideal for towing

• Superior performance on demand whilst keeping the engine standard at idle

• Select higher gears sooner, down change less, reducing RPM's, improving economy

• Use less throttle for similar driving conditions, further reducing consumption

• Eliminates flat spot, reduces turbo lag and sharpens throttle for a smoother drive

• Makes more of the RPM range usable, for safer overtaking

• 14 day trial and 3 year product warranty

• Compliant with vehicle emission standards, suitable for diesel particulate vehicles

• Kind to engines and transmissions (automatic compatible)

• Digital and reprogrammable for use on your next vehicle *

* On most vehicles you can keep your existing tuning box. Usually all that is required is new software and possibly a new adaptor cable. We charge a fixed price for re-programming and an additional fee if a new adaptor cable is necessary. Even if your system is not compatible we will offer you a fantastic part exchange on your old system as long as it is less than 2 years old. Please contact us for further details to check the compatibility of your current system.

How the diesel tuning system works...

Today's diesel engines have many sensors which are connected to the vehicle's ECU (computer). Using digital microprocessor technology the Chip Express™ system intercepts, analyses, and alters the signals between the ECU and injection system, calibrating for the most efficient amount of fuel depending on the driving requirements. This is facilitated by utilising the extra air available (as much as 50%), provided by the turbocharger whilst still remaining within its safe efficiency range. Because of this the fuel consumption is improved as you now require less throttle and RPM for similar driving conditions.

 

[Marsupial]

To good to be true?

Hi

I am doing the same research for a tuning a common rail diesel car engine and I have found this:

http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/tuningmethods_plus.shtml

After reading your info and the site above I have the opinion that if it was that easy there would be a little control on the panel provided by the manufacturer to turn to tweak the output, there isnt so perhaps its not what it seems.

for example:

"calibrating for the most efficient amount of fuel depending on the driving requirements. This is facilitated by utilising the extra air available (as much as 50%), provided by the turbocharger whilst still remaining within its safe efficiency range. "

are these tuning guys expecting us to believe that Volvo or Yanmar or who ever dont understand the potential in thier engines? and have underestimated the air supply by 50%? I dont know the answer but I think they will be getting everything they can from their hardware.

 

[jimduncan1]

Marsupial,

Thanks for your reply and yes that would be my first thought while longterm damage would certainly be a concern.

I suppose then I am also trying to understand what is the difference between the D3 160 and 190 versions? The overall spec appears the same (bore/stroke, etc) so what is the actual difference between these engines besides fuel and air management parameters via ECU? (Besides marketing and price point of course!)

Any idea?

 

[Marsupial]

Marsupial,

Thanks for your reply and yes that would be my first thought while longterm damage would certainly be a concern.

I suppose then I am also trying to understand what is the difference between the D3 160 and 190 versions? The overall spec appears the same (bore/stroke, etc) so what is the actual difference between these engines besides fuel and air management parameters via ECU? (Besides marketing and price point of course!)

Any idea?

Its the same for me, my diesel engine manufacturing experience finished long before common rail was invented - but from what I have gleaned the differences in power output are the "quality" of the ECU mappings and the ability of the engine to deal with the extra heat and power created and remain reliable, so the ECU forms only part of the "power package" meaning there could be other subtile differences like (guessing) water pump capacity, oil pump characteristics, sump volume, main and con rod bearing materials, piston lubrication/cooling, valve size, turbo size and settings and injectors. and (after a few blocks fell in two pieces-that gets your attention on a dyno- the webs of the crankcase but I think all blocks are the same now - STRONG!) - these were the things we changed as power increased back in the 1960's.

However that said the difference between a Rover XXBHP and XXXBHP petrol engine was a throttle stop!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Turbo diesel engine remapping for cars has been around for years and it works. I've had 4 cars remapped by this outfit http://www.dmsautomotive.com/ and I have got increased power/torque and decreased fuel consumption on every occasion. Until recently I had a RIB with a VW 150Tdi engine in it, which is a marine engine based on a vehicle engine and I did talk to DMS about remapping it for more power. They told me that they have worked on boats as well as cars and boat engines can be remapped just like car engines but boats are more tricky than cars because you do have to experiment with the prop dimensions to ensure that the extra power generated by the engine can be absorbed by the prop which usually means going up in size. Unfortunately prop sizing is not an exact science so you may have to get 2 or 3 different props to try out to find which one gives the optimum speed/acceleration combination
As for this particular tuning box, there are quite a few companies offering plug in tuning boxes for cars so it's not uncommon although this is the first one I've seen for a boat engine. Personally, I'd rather get a professional remapping co like DMS or Superchips who know what they're doing to remap the engine rather than rely on a box about which you know nothing

 

[ulyden]

Chip tuning

When a engine boulder make an engine fore pleasure application a life time and power rating is considered. For a D3 a life time of 3000hours is estimated!
300 of these is full power the rest is 75% or less. Today we know a lot about stress fatigue! We can calculate the stress levels just below these limits so the fatigue dos not occure before expected life time!

If you chip tune your engine the firing pressure and the end temperature of the cycle is affected. No way around! If you increase the boost the firing pressure increase. If the compression ration is 17 an increase in boost pressure of 0.2 bare gives 10bar higher firing pressure if the timing is constant or you have late ignition!
(The D3 160hp have a boost pressure of 1.15bar and the 190hp has 1.37bar!)
The turbo outlet temperature is 515degCon the 160hp version and 535degC on the 190hk version. Since the stronger engine needs more boost we can assume that inlet temperature of the turbo is at least 20deg higher!

To take this higher loads the engine needs to be stronger and take more heat. Its also important that the injection period don’t get to long. Then the jet is coming over the combustion chamber in piston. Then you burn it! Then you have to increase the pressure or bigger holes in the nozzles!

The valves are getting hotter because the higher end temperature and it also gets more combustion pressure to take! It needs stronger and stiffer material(titan/natrium cooling?)

The piston and bearings needs to be stronger as vel. Bigger crank pin and iron piston in std of alu? Bearing material what is the specific load?

Then you com to the turbocharger! You have higher temperature an needs more boost!
That means bigger A/R ratio (Which the VTG might provide) higher speed which can be on the limit. Can this turbine inlet housing take this temperature? On the compressor side you can expect higher outlet temperature. Do you have big enough charge air cooler?

Also remember when you increase the input power from 35l/h is 356kw! When you increase it to 39l/h the input heat is 395kw that means 20kw more needs to be cooled do you have more cooling?

So if you ask me chip tuners is like drug dealers! You have to pay for a shorter life for your engine. When thing goes wrong they don’t pay you for the damage.

Just think why should volvo give away money by derating a 190hp engine to 160hk. Do that make sense? Just remember a chip tuned engine might work wery vell for 3 or 4 yers.
It can last for 5or 6 also! Problem you just don’t know!

 

[DAKA]

Volvo car main dealers now offer a software upgrade on the D5 which was first introduced with 165hp and now is sold standard 185hp (the Volvo D5 is the same engine as Volvo penta D3) the upgrade increases the standard power 185 hp to 205 hp.
It is currently only available for the XC90 (Volvo Rang rover copy), the same D5 engine (185hp) is also fitted to the smaller S80,C70 and even smaller S60, however the upgrade is not available to these smaller vehicles permissibly due to brakes not been adequate and Insurance group rating issues ??

 

[Firefly625]

I have to admit to having had a few Honda CR-V diesel engines "chipped", via superchips, this mod was a re-map of the ECU, they don't even lift the bonnet. The result was astonishing, 140Ps (from old 2.2 i-ctdi Honda unit) to 180Ps and torque from 340Nm to 375Nm. The engine would rev like a petrol unit and have a lovely pull throughout the rev range, and it had better fuel consumption. As yet none of the CR-V's we did this to have ever had any engine issue and we are going back a few years now, and customers just love them. The upgrade was totally invisible to the Honda diagnostic systems so we fully warranted the vehicles as if they are standard.

I would now add that I would never do this to a marine diesel... why? well I think the life expectancy of a vehicle is wildly different to that of a boat. I expect a diesel engine to un-stressed in a boat and last at least 30 years in a non commercial application and the boat still be of considerable value at that time. Lets face it most everyday cars have had the best years of their life after 7 years and by the time they are 10 plus are of minimal value to buy and if they go wrong generally they head off to the scrap heap.... so wildly different to the marine world. Keep the concept of messing with engines on the road is my recommendation..not on water.

 

[spannerman]

When I was on a D4/6 course with Volvo last year, this question cropped up from several of us who have been approached by customers wanting this done.
The answer from VP technical was simple, Do it at your peril! If an engine is chipped the warranty is instantly null and void as far as VP are concerned, they will turn their back on you.
The method used is akin squeezing a hose to make it spray further, the very fact that it is not a remap shows that its a Heath Robinson approach, it is done by fooling the Mprop valve which controls the amount of fuel going into the high pressure pump and therefore raises the rail pressure which is monitored to give a feed back to the Mprop via the ECU. Its nothing to do altering injection timing or duration so its **** way to alter the engines performance because you are now bypassing the monitoring system to control rail pressure, this can lead to pump failure (expensive) and you have inhibited the systems inbuilt protection system which prevents engine damage by a failed sensor etc.
I once had a customer call in an engine tuning guy to chip his Mercruiser D320, he loaded in 4 different programmes and everytime I tested the boat there was a new problem, either tons of black smoke, or the rev limiter kicked and it went into limp home, or the drive wouldn't trim out due to excessive load from the 30" prop he was trying to run.
I've never seen a system work satisfactorily on a boat yet.
But there is no shortage of gullable punters willing to throw money after those extra 2-3 knts.
I don't believe it improves economy in a boat as they run at constant high loading, there is no light load cruising on a boat engine. So to get extra hp you have to burn extra fuel, fact!
You can bet that the major manufacturers have got their engines running as economicaly and cleanly as practical otherwise they wouldn't get through the certification process.

 

[Marsupial]

The method used is akin squeezing a hose to make it spray further, the very fact that it is not a remap shows that its a Heath Robinson approach, it is done by fooling the Mprop valve which controls the amount of fuel going into the high pressure pump and therefore raises the rail pressure which is monitored to give a feed back to the Mprop via the ECU. Its nothing to do altering injection timing or duration so its **** way to alter the engines performance because you are now bypassing the monitoring system to control rail pressure, this can lead to pump failure (expensive) and you have inhibited the systems inbuilt protection system which prevents engine damage by a failed sensor etc.


You can bet that the major manufacturers have got their engines running as economicaly and cleanly as practical otherwise they wouldn't get through the certification process.

This is about where my research is, so the answer is dont as far as I can see.

 

[adrianb]

Mmmmm I thought(briefly) about chipping on my D12's, but was told that the gearboxes wouldn't "like" it.

As the boat was in warranty at the time I didn't want a null and void enigine warranty!

I'd be sceptical imho.

 

[MVP]

A lot of products are "sabotaged" in order to sell a higher priced version, i.e a 160 and a 190 engine are probably the same apart from chip (it doesn't make sense to run two production lines for such similar products), but look at the cost difference.

Look at the difference between a 9.9 and a 15hp outboards - they're the same physical engine with a few tweeks and look at the price difference - no way is it justified on a cost basis.

Most cars apparently have cruise control in their electrics, but the knob to use it is charged at £100s

MVP

 

[volvopaul]

If you are going to chip a marine engine its already designed to give its max duty cycle and reliabilty now and set up around its drive and related prop size and curve, so if you up the power unless you alter the prop the you wont go any fater overall, you will just get there quicker,

Automotive remapping is centred around torque and over mpg improvements, thats it.

Therefore unless you repitch your props to suit you wont go any faster.

As for the warranty spannerman is quite right, do it at your own risk.

To be fair the engines are at there limit without providing extra cooling, on water fuel and oil, together with piston cooling as well.

 

[ianj99]

If you are going to chip a marine engine its already designed to give its max duty cycle and reliabilty now and set up around its drive and related prop size and curve, so if you up the power unless you alter the prop the you wont go any fater overall, you will just get there quicker,

Automotive remapping is centred around torque and over mpg improvements, thats it.

Therefore unless you repitch your props to suit you wont go any faster.

As for the warranty spannerman is quite right, do it at your own risk.

To be fair the engines are at there limit without providing extra cooling, on water fuel and oil, together with piston cooling as well.

Speaking as someone also involved with electronic engine tuning, I can't see any point in tuning a diesel on a displacement boat if it is already achieving its hull speed'. You may see some small economy improvement if the engine has a common rail injection system.

On a planing or semi planing hull then the extra torque would translate into higher speed and also make it easier to get on the plane. You may well have to re-prop however to make full use of the extra torque and also ensure the gearbox was up to the job.

Unlike motorvehicles, marine engines are often run for long periods at average loads much higher than road vehicles so the consequences of tuning may be more significant if not done with care. The RNLI run their lifebot engines flat out other than in harbour and manoeuvering so they obviously must be able take this for hours at a time and without needing major overhaul too often. I'd not be too keen to tune theirs and claim they'll save fuel, yet reliability and service life would not be affected at all!

I

 

[ulyden]

If you check the part list the difference between 160 hp and 190hp is turbocharger, water cooler, cargeair cooler and more.

http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7744550-26-9389.aspx

There is also a different A and B make of these. If you have an A type 160hp engine it does not share the parts with the 190hp B version!

The spesifik fuel consumption is much better on the 190hp version also indicating a hi efficancy turbocharger.

I know a little better BMW car engines and these have different cooling bores and nozzles if they have different ratings! the 2 liters can have 116hp 143hp 177hp and 204hk on same bore/stroke ratio!

 

[oldgit]

"gullable punters willing to throw money after those extra 2-3 knts."

Or keep the bottom clean,get rid of some of the junk/weight that invariably lurks in the boat and achieve the same result ?

 

[jecuk]

Like a car engine a turbo diesel is easy to tune and is likely fine with small increases in power as a result. Yes you will lose your warranty but that is the risk. I doubt it makes as big an impact on life of the engine as manufacturers suggest.

However not much point unless you have turbos.

Manufacturers derate engines so they only need one production line.

 

[Csail]

Don't think it would be that noticable in a boat but i just did the Audi quattro from 180 to 220 and that made a big difference. The VW van went from 100 to 130bhp and it is amazing. (Both turbo diesel)

 

[oldgit]

Chips.

Surely the only real consideration is if your chipped out of brains donkey self destructs while showing the geezer in the Vauxhall Corsa at the traffic lights who is boss,you will be left with only muffled laughter ringing in your ears as you use the starter motor to crawl to the kerb.

On the boat,miles from shelter with nice freshening wind and darkness falling......?and all for a couple of knots max..........

 

[tinkicker0]

I'm sceptical about claims like these. To up the power you need to up the amount of fuel going in, the oxygen to burn it and the susbsequent combustion temps and pressures.

Simply put, there is no magic panacea to high performance on the same base engine, to get more energy out you must put more energy in. Energy in this case being fuel. So you are pumping more fuel into the combustion chamber than the standard engine. Claims of improved fuel economy blown away then.......unless.

On a modern HPCR diesel, to up the fuel will mean longer duration injection events / or if rail pressure is controlled electronically, higher pressures. Dont think higher pressures are viable as injector nozzle orifice erosion is a considerable problem even with stock engines.
So we will go with longer duration events.

Some of this extra fuel injected in the main injection burst can be recouped by cutting or reducing injection events at possibly the pilot injection event and the afterburning injection events.

This will lead to steeper than designed temperature and pressure gradients within the engine and can only have an adverse affect on durability and smooth running.

Fancy a broken crank anyone?

You have to change more than a piece of silicon to get a durable engine with more power. Turbo, pistons, injectors with larger nozzles, mapping, exhaust valves possibly, manifolds. The list can be endless.

Of course the fuel consumption will rise considerably too. both sides of the equation have to balance. Nothing ever comes for free.


The engine development engineeer knows best. The old maxim still hold true:

Want more power? get more cubes.