Chinese 2 hp 2 stroke outboard

[VicS]

I thought that all 2 stroke engines were banned for the exception of trimmers and chain saws, where the weight of 4 stroke engines was an issue.
I still see cheap 2 stroke generators in DIY sheds, Lidl etc.

What actually are the facts

The facts are that in European countries we are talking about the "Recreation Craft Directive" ( other regulations apply in other countries)

It applies only to recreational craft so not to any other motor driven machinery nor to commercial and rescue craft.

The RCD sets emission, and noise, limits on inboard and outboard engines, as said above, " placed on the market" after the effective date(s).

Two stroke engines ( inboard or outboard ) that comply with the limits in the RCD can still be legally "put on the market" for recreational use... hence the Optimax and E-TEC 2 strokes from Mercury/Mariner and Evinrude can be legally sold.

 

[Fire99]

Under Health & Safety Rules 2 Stroke Outboards of under 5 Hp Should be allowed. A new 4hp 4 stroke Outboard weighs 27 kilos, But a 4hp 2 stroke would only weigh 15 kilos. Not everybody who goes boating is a weightlifter. We should have a petition to allow smaller outboards to be re-introduced. After all most of the small 2 strokes are only used on tenders or dingys, perhaps filled once a season. Get real.

Totally go along with that. As you say, most small 2-strokes use about a gallon a year of fuel, it's counter productive to go 4-stroke. Especially if you keep to the service routine, you'll be dumping engine oil and a filter each year (with the 4-strokes)

After using a 10hp 4-stroke Honda (around 55kg), I know what heavy is and it's a bit of a pain.

 

[[2068]]

I really want to keep my 2-stroke 5hp going as long as possible. It weighs 20kg and will JUST get me planing on a slatted floor 240.

The modern equivalent four stroke weighs 26kg, and I'm fairly certain it won't be planing time. Also, the extra 6kg doesn't sound much, but even lifting 20kg on and off each time causes unhealthy straining crunching and popping sounds.

Why didn't they continue to sell "replacement power heads" and "replacement lower units". Takes 20mins to bolt the two together, and voila, new o/b.

 

[Assassin]

One friend has changed his power head for a 2 stroke chainsaw one, apparently totally legal and it gives him 2Kw output.

 

[Latestarter1]

One friend has changed his power head for a 2 stroke chainsaw one, apparently totally legal and it gives him 2Kw output.

Covered by EU Directive 2002/88/EC Spark ignited Non-Road Mobile Machinery.

Two stroke motors CAN meet the above Directive which actually over rides the pointless RCD which is typically EU hoch potch, we have a set of standards, then the EU makes up another set of different standards. I look forward to RCD II when everything becomes aligned with Tier III.

Your chainsaw motor will bear the EC Conformity mark, however unlike older saw engine you will notice that there are very limited adustments you can make to carb.

Small two strokes are not banned, per se, just producing conforming products WHICH PERFORM in a way which meet customer needs is another issue. This is the reason why manufacturers choose to go down the easier four stroke route, particularly when in comes to conformorty of production which is part of the legislation. I have a new Husqvana chain saw which replaced my twenty year old equivalent model, does it have the 'guts' of the old one, does it heck! Conformorty of Production is one why emissions conforming products are more expensive.

The sale of non EU conforming equipment is policed by it being a prohibited import. Selling such items is another issue. If product claims to be EU compliant and is not, you have criminal offence of deception.

However do the Revenue acually go after this type of prohibited import.......No, just look at the number of spark ignited engines both two and four strokes in motor bikes, Honda cloned industrial engines, generators etc highly unlikely to conform. Seems like who cares!

In the US they have become smart, certain engine manufacturers produce 'reconditioned' engines in plants designated as recon plants away from original source of manufacture. Are these engine reconditioned, highly unlikely as it is less expensive to build new engine.

 

[TrueBlue]

If I recall correctly all and any two-strokes are banned from the Thames.

I think the Lockie is supposed to take you to one side and explain the error of your ways to you.

Where do (did) you get that from? (query, not being contentious).

Nobody's said nuffin' to me, mark you apart from the noise and clouds of smoke, I keep my 'gull for short distances only....

 

[Latestarter1]

Where do (did) you get that from? (query, not being contentious).

Nobody's said nuffin' to me, mark you apart from the noise and clouds of smoke, I keep my 'gull for short distances only....

????? I can think of literally dozens and dozens of classic craft with Stuart Turner inboards in current use and for sale, also a fair number of copper jacket Watamota two strokes, all banned.........

I would be very interested regarding such a by-law as this type of legislation is rarely retropective

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Surely one could just ask one's friendly neighbourhood chandler in the Channel Islands to order a nice little 3.3HP Mariner for you and then have a nice little sail to collect it? Or don't they make any them any more?

 

[charles_reed]

Parsun is one brand of Chinese made outboards available in the UK although all are 4 strokes not 2 strokes.

It is not actually correct to say that you should not be able to buy 2 strokes.

The emissions regulations that came into force a few years ago as part of the RCD effectively ruled out all the small two strokes for recreational use but Mercury/Mariner and Evinrude still offer large two strokes that comply with the emission regulations ( Optimax and eTec )

Existing stocks of small 2 strokes can still be legally sold.

"Grey" imports of 2-stroke outboards are available in France, Italy, Malta and in Greece, to my knowlege.
Yamaha and Mariner are different designs - the Mariner is a Tohatsu, rebadged also by Mercury.
The 3.3/3.5 is a vastly superior engine to the 2.2/2.5, though basically the same unit - the bigger one has a stainless-steel not alloy water pump and a dog-clutch offering in/out gear - it is heavier.
No small OB runs happily on 100:1 petroil, though Yamaha were claiming that mix followed by the others - they're really only happy on 50:1.

 

[Mirror Painter]

If I recall correctly all and any two-strokes are banned from the Thames.

I think the Lockie is supposed to take you to one side and explain the error of your ways to you.

Both of the above sentences are complete rubbish.

 

[charles_reed]

Explanation of the "illegality" of two strokes:

http://www.marineroutboards.co.uk/pdfs/mariner_laws.pdf

The above also has a waiver, pointing out that it's Mariner's interpretation of the directive.
Slightly circular? ;-)

 

[Latestarter1]

The above also has a waiver, pointing out that it's Mariner's interpretation of the directive.
Slightly circular? ;-)

Not sure I understand....Slightly circular??

Seems like a well balanced summary to me.

I am curious about the comments rearding 'grey' imports available in France, Malta, and Italy. EPA legislation in US (Worlds largest marine leisure market) was final nail in the coffin for small two strokes many years before RCD. Yamaha ceased production of small two strokes long before impementation of RCD so I am not sure where the alleged 'grey' imports are being sourced.

I do not to go too far off topic, but for commercial vessels IMO emissions legislation is an absolute pain on older boats. However new non IMO certified engines turn up here, route is real easy, shipped from China to New Zealand (both non compliant territories) then from NZ, low tariff area to UK. Are these engines any good? Nope.

 

[rafiki_]

For completeness, these engines are covered by NRMM and RCD as Latestarter says. The regs do NOT state engine configuration, but emissions standards, and it is the Eu Retailer who has to comply, NOT the user. Users have to comply with BSC if used on a river/inland waterway. Engines built and sold to previous levels of emissions regs cannot be outlawed, even if the regulators would like to.

To meet the current emissions regs, it is very difficult to get a small 2-stroke to comply, thay is why it is difficult to find a new small 2-stroke. All other countries in the Eu have the same regs, but they do not all enforce to the same level.

 

[Loggo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggo
If I recall correctly all and any two-strokes are banned from the Thames.

I think the Lockie is supposed to take you to one side and explain the error of your ways to you.


Both of the above sentences are complete rubbish.

Thanks Moxon - I think you need to increase your dose of "politeness" tablets.

Have been trying (in response to more tactful requests) to recall where this entered my conciousness and am having little success. I guess I gave it low priority as my o/b was four stroke. I recall discussing it with a fellow boater whilst waiting to lock through to henley in '10 and he was aware of something similar and was trying to disguise his twostroke.

 

[VicS]

The above also has a waiver, pointing out that it's Mariner's interpretation of the directive.
Slightly circular? ;-)

So in what ways do you think this may not be an accurate interpretation of the RCD as it applies to outboards.

 

[steve66]

Really interested in the legislation behind 2 stroke use and associated "grey" areas but going back to the original thread, does anyone own one of these?

 

[rotrax]

If I recall correctly all and any two-strokes are banned from the Thames.

I think the Lockie is supposed to take you to one side and explain the error of your ways to you.

Tosh!