Chichester Bar - Don't Cut The Corner!

[Seajet]

Fireball,

My 'sweeping statement' may have been a bit of a generalisation; I'd be happy and indeed intrigued to go in & out of Chichester entrance in a Severn or Arun lifeboat !

While it's quite possible for a good boat - with a lot of rudder authority to deal with surf and an experienced helmsperson- to get in during a gale, I was trying to get the message across this is not a brilliant idea.

In strong southerlies ( which are usually the problem at the bar ) one can encounter unpleasant large breaking waves along Hayling foreshore too, as previously stated it's best to keep well off and approach Chichester bar from the South, in any conditions.

I'll say it again, the place should not be demonised, and don't be put off; in normal conditions it's an absolute doddle, and you'll be wondering what the fuss was about.

Does anyone think the hundreds of boats which go in & out every week are all Cape Horn veterans ?!
I'll say it again, Chichester entrance is an absolute doddle in normal conditions, the place should not be demonised; does anyone think the hundreds of boats which go in & out at weekends are all steel boats owned by Cape Horn veterans ?!

An aside to this at usually but not always the other end of the wind scale is that the depthsounder will not help find the entrance if in poor vis'.

I have delayed a day on a couple of occasions to avoid having to enter Chichester in Southerlies above F6; interestingly they were when I had a Carter 30, which had a full length skeg stalling the rudder, it was pretty hopeless in surf despite my trying all the usual tricks.

As someone else just said, no prizes for frightening one's crew; a delay of a day or so is a much better option, the graveyard is full of people who 'had to be back for Monday' !

BTW I crewed your namesake dinghy for several winter series years ago; when it came to a Round Hayling Island race in about F5-6 we capsized 7 times in Chichester entrance ( The Fireball is a scoop not a seaboat ) but still did well...

 

[Seajet]

I've had to add this separately as it seems I've used up my allotted space;

I'll say it again; please don't demonise Chichester entrance, in normal conditions it's an absolute doddle and newcomers will wonder what the fuss was about; after all a lot of people, self included, visit places like Salcombe which has a horrible reputation in bad weather, I've spent a week stormbound there when venturing out was not even a moments' consideration.

As for Chichester, well does anyone think the many hundreds of boats going in & out every week are all Cape Horn veterans ?!

 

[fantasia7628]

I agree that West Pole sands are really best avoided at any state of tide or weather. The swash channel off East Stoke point really does not exist any more. There is a very narrow 10m wide wave backwash "ditch" tight in to the red pole beacons, but it is barely wide enough for a dinghy. I race dinghies and keelboats from HISC and we almost always sail south of West Pole Beacon before turning to race in Hayling bay.

As others have said it is the ebb tide running against any sea with south in it that causes the very short steep waves that are particulary dangerous to short boats and dinghies. It is important to have plenty of speed (as illustrated in the Oppie video clip) to take one over the back of the waves. If it is nasty and we have to get back in in adverse conditions we sail futher east towards the target beacon on east pole sands and then take a rough transit from that to the west winner stbd hand beacon - slightly easier and less tidal stream, but can still be fairly hairy. Avoid the ebb when entering in a blow.

 

[Seajet]

It might be worh mentioning that the 'target beacon' is quite well off to the East, a concrete structure which looks like a wedge shape ( Pretty sure it was an artillery target many years ago ).

Not suitable for cruisers to go that far East, to put it mildly, but may be of help to the poster with a Drascombe.

 

[Mark-1]

It might be worh mentioning that the 'target beacon' is quite well off to the East, a concrete structure which looks like a wedge shape ( Pretty sure it was an artillery target many years ago ).

 

[ianat182]

Juan Twothree. Thank you for the incident confirmation,yes the boat was that as named, which I avoided doing in my original post.
Also for the correction of the award recipient in the RNLI crew.
However, it is an illustration of the wrong mix of wind and tide in similar entrances, even when no 'bar' is present, and the skill(and luck) needed to overcome the hazard.

ianat182

 

[brianhumber]

As others have said Chi Bar 99.5% of the time is a doodle.

The harbour channels and sand banks I feel are 'fluid' , (eg 20 years ago the north winner was a lot further south and the gravel bank a lot lower). I always like to survey the short cuts between East Head and the main channel every spring . These are getting deeper so I guess the nature is trying to make a new entrance for the Chichester arm closer to East Head and the north winner channel will silt up over time.

Entering and leaving conditions vary depending on wind, tide state and swell so you cannot generalise and say always avoid in F7+. Always exciting getting a good surf in on the bar. In such conditions its always prudent to have washboards in, double check harnesses etc. I am lucky I guess Ronhilda has twin rudders.

Brian

 

[Seajet]

If the hull shape was any good she wouldn't need horribly vulnerable & weak twin rudders !

 

[DJE]

I've surfed across the bar several times in a Wayfarer dinghy and once in a Sadler 29. The worst conditions I saw in the Wayfarer were a strong Northerly against a spring flood. We were tacking downwind and some of the gybes were a bit too close to Hayling beach, but we were young and indestructible in those days. In the Sadler we left it a bit late to decide to go and meet friends at East Head and arrived in a SSW 5 about a couple of hours after high water. The boat coped well but the worry was the traffic; it was Saturday afternoon and there were about six boats all surfing across the bar together.

 

[brianhumber]

If the hull shape was any good she wouldn't need horribly vulnerable & weak twin rudders !

Agreed hull is not perfect or not as strong as some. But she has looked after me and my many mistakes for over 15years in all weathers and allowed me to dry out in places others can only dream about.

Brian

 

[MissFitz]

Hate to ask a really dumb question (again) but what would Chi-based forumites recommend as the best time to leave the marina/Dell Quay area to cross the bar if it looks like it might be a bit rough?

I've always assumed there was no point trying to fight the tide on the way out, but it looks like I might have had a few unnecessarily bumpy rides as a result.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Because U don't have Muumy & Daddy's RIB ready to Vert Ripple U Off?

Great footage Emsworthy thanks, now THAT is sailing! Begs the question why do you need to spend 250K + on a big yacht?

Pushing a dinghy to the edge for fun- ok. Particularly if young enough not to have been hit by/seen sh@t hit.
Crossing in cruising mode the North Sea to Holland, and onto Sweden/Irish Sea/ Lake Huron- North Channel in a dinghy, or rolling 100k worth of yacht cos you got the Chi Bar wrong, possibly losing crew o/b- another ball game IMHO.

Conservative boat work is good sjomanskip!

 

[Tidewaiter2]

It might be worth mentioning that the 'target beacon' is quite well off to the East, a concrete structure which looks like a wedge shape ( Pretty sure it was an artillery target many years ago ).



Air strike target, IMHRC?

 

[Seajet]

It might have been used as a target for aircraft in less restricted times - I am very used to such things, was a technical photographer on testing the Harrier & Hawk, but by then test ranges were a lot safer and we had to go to Scotland ( from Dunsfold, Surrey - where 'Top Gear' is filmed now ).

At Tangmere museum - well worth a visit - there's a display showing the route over the area taken by the then world speed record holder, and the souped -up ( afterburning ) Hunter aircraft flown by Neville Duke next to it.

As for the question about when to set off...

If "it looks like being a bit rough" one has to ask if it's a good idea going out of the harbour; one of Chichester harbour's great strengths is it has plenty of places to go, say Bosham or I bet you haven't tried Langstone village, at the foot of Emsworth Channel & Sweare Deep ( if unhappy anchoring or mooring, there are Northney and Emsworth marinas ).

There are 2 good old pubs serving food a short walking range from Northney, and at weekends or Wednesday nights Langstone S.C; Emsworth marina is a bit tidally restricted and the berths are tight to get into ( the normal visitors mooring is convenient and straight in front as one enters, but is not often free, it's a case of finding a spot if the office is closed ) - but Emsworth is a lovely place, loads of options for pubs & restaraunts, and good cafe's serving breakfasts.

If still keen to get outside, - remember the Chimet weather reporting system -I've found one does have to punch into a foul flood tide ( so usually sadly motoring as far as the outer marker if one wants to get anywhere, if it's the usual Southerly wind ) a couple of hours before HW, and of couse from Dell Quay it's a good hour's trip at least given yacht motoring speeds against the tide.

NB the tide outside - and in the entrance channel - starts going West about 1and a half hours before local HW.

 

[stephen_h]

Years ago when I worked on a local fishing boat, we were leaving the chi harbour in a bit of a fog after a gale had passed. Another skipper in front of us radioed to say that the fog was clearing and he could see the Isle of Wight. A few minutes later he was back on say they were huge swells and not land. It was a scary moment until we were pass them! A fishing boat was capsized a few years later with the loss of the skipper in similar circumstances. Big swells and shallow water are dangerous wherever they are.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Hate to ask a really dumb question (again) but what would Chi-based forumites recommend as the best time to leave the marina/Dell Quay area to cross the bar if it looks like it might be a bit rough?

I've always assumed there was no point trying to fight the tide on the way out, but it looks like I might have had a few unnecessarily bumpy rides as a result.

I will assume you are heading west after leaving Chichester Harbour. If that is so then the current starts to run East to West 2 hours before HW Portsmouth, there is a little slack, hardly recordable before this. So, yes you will have to work against the flood coming down from Dell Quay. I'm not familiar with the currents in that area of the harbour, but coming down from Emsworth, we will often sail or motor as far to the port side of the channel as possible, between the HISC moorings, to keep out of the main strength of the flood tide.

With the above in mind, and to get the best of an East to West tidal flow, you will need to plan your departure from Dell Quay, this of course may be determined by the amount of water you have at Dell Quay of course. In a SW or S wind this will ensure that you dont encounter a wind over tide drama at the bar.

In strong wind conditions, we plan our return the same way, to be back at the bar before at least 1 hr after HW Chichester. But!! In planning your return passage, remember that the tide will be flowing E-W 2 hours before HW Portsmouth, which will slow your SOG.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

New Visitors berths now!

Emsworth marina is a bit tidally restricted and the berths are tight to get into ( the normal visitors mooring is convenient and straight in front as one enters, but is not often free, it's a case of finding a spot if the office is closed ) - but Emsworth is a lovely place, loads of options for pubs & restaraunts, and good cafe's serving breakfasts.

If still keen to get outside, - remember the Chimet weather reporting system -I've found one does have to punch into a foul flood tide ( so usually sadly motoring as far as the outer marker if one wants to get anywhere, if it's the usual Southerly wind ) a couple of hours before HW, and of couse from Dell Quay it's a good hour's trip at least given yacht motoring speeds against the tide.

NB the tide outside - and in the entrance channel - starts going West about 1and a half hours before local HW.[/QUOTE]

The old Visitors berth on the hammerhead of A pontoon is no more!

Since the dredging and unlamented demise of Tarquin Yachts, a new V shaped,alongside visitors pontoon has been created/installed at the root of B pontoon, between the scrubbing berth/ fuel berth along the harbourside, below the EYH office building.

You can raft up there if full too, plus any vacant pontoon slots- but some of us berthholders do wander in and out at all states of the tide (if there's a metre over the sill)and times of night, so best to check with the office!

The only downside is me clumping up & down the B pontoon bridge!

I reckon an hour up or down EYH to the HISC end of the CHi Bar channel, and say 30 mins out to Westpole,

1)so we can meet and ride towards Cowes, etc, the west going flood coming round the top at Bembridge at an hour or so before HW.

2) reach the sill with enough water to go straight in- there is a hard bottomed shallow patch emerging about 50-100 before the two scrubbing/waiting piles by the EYH entrance.

It's about 2-2.1m depth at times on a tide- our keel scrapes sometimes!

 

[Seajet]

For people not used to Emsworth Marina, it might be worth pointing out the approach channel gets shallow with the tide, best for deep keel boats on their first visit to keep within an hour or so of HW.

The marina no. is 01243 377727.

I'm not anything to do with them.

The sill is hard concrete, there's a photo' of a large yacht dried out on it in the gents loos ! Unless that pic' too has been changed, thanks for the update Tidewaiter 2.

It's a lovely place though, with a walk straight into Emsworth town past the millpond, ( have some bread ready for the swans & ducks ! ) and also seems a natural sun-trap.

There's a tide guage at the sill - accurate when I was last there, and no reason for it to change; use binoculars if worried on the approach.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Thanks for that-i forgot to say deep keelers can get neaped too!

For people not used to Emsworth Marina, it might be worth pointing out the approach channel gets shallow with the tide, best for deep keel boats on their first visit to keep within an hour or so of HW.

The marina no. is 01243 377727.

I'm not anything to do with them.

The sill is hard concrete, there's a photo' of a large yacht dried out on it in the gents loos ! Unless that pic' too has been changed, thanks for the update Tidewaiter 2.

It's a lovely place though, with a walk straight into Emsworth town past the millpond, ( have some bread ready for the swans & ducks ! ) and also seems a natural sun-trap.

There's a tide guage at the sill - accurate when I was last there, and no reason for it to change; use binoculars if worried on the approach.

Yes, EYH is a bit of a suntrap- we've even had a late breakfast outside in January one or two years- it's all the mud- keeps the clouds away!
First time, to enter on HW Springs will make it enjoyable, and check the tide gauge on the Starboard dolphin just by the Town pontoon; 4m there and you should have circa 2m over the sill-

The EYH has an new online sill depth programme you can check now(built by a berth holder!)- but i haven't used it yet- we just eyeball the newly refurbished depth gauges at the bottom entrance or inside and adjust keel to suit!

2m keel yachts can & do get neaped in there,or coming up the channel beyond the Town pontoon.
- esp if neaps coincide with a ridge of high pressure.
You can lurk on a buoy or the visitors or Town (2hrs max, imhrc)pontoons on the way up to wait for depth over the sill.

The picture isn't in either gents loos now imrc, but one of the small sea angling boats makes a habit of getting hung up on the sill at least once a year/18months, usually exiting!

It might have been a deep keel boat, now next to me, which two years ago, someone tried to steal/cast adrift when he was on the A pontoon hammerhead, along with two/three smaller ones up at Dolphin Quay one winters night.

We don't get much of that sort of thing at all, (lots of watchful eyes all year round, on pontoons & in deckhouses, who know who belongs on which boat) so we were all a bit shocked- I was on board that night but didn't hear or see anything of the scrotes who did it.

 

[Seajet]

The photo' Im refering to was taken a good few years ago, a 35' + yacht with a deep keel, tried to scrape in and ended up dried out on the sill with a supporting halliard taken ashore.

If only they could have powered on another few inches it might have been a lot better ending, but as far as I know she got away with it.

As for gits trying to steal/set adrift a deep keel boat, I've heard of such things at Wareham Quay, and had a bit of yobbo trouble myself there ( used a super-soaker filled with, well shall we say it wasn't water !A surprisingly good deterrent when they caught on... that and the police for once doing their job sorted it out, I think the problem has largely disappeared nowadays ).

I heard years ago of a yacht at Chichester Marina which was broken into; the owner had a list of valuable nav' kit written beside the chart table, the thieves ticked off each item as they took them !

Again, security is much better nowadays.