Checking through hulls have not turned to copper

paulstevens said:
Good grief! You owe it to all the people here to go away and do some basic research please.

Or are you just trying to wind well meaning folk up?
Click to expand...

No I am not trying to wind people up.I merely said that I'd prefer to see copper in a fitting (as opposed to zinc) because it is more malleable.
vyv_cox brought up manganese bronze saying it was brass & that then ushers in the inevitable conversation involving electrolytic action.
The less zinc the less danger of the effects of electrolytic action it seems to me ......a whole new mine field avoided.THAT'S WHY I'D PREFER NYLON.
Propellers & electrolytic action is a whole new conversation is it not?

PS:The old book I have got kicking around from my school days says that "bronze generally consists of 96 per cent copper and 4 per cent tin."There is no mention of zinc (that is brass) & as we all know there are God knows how many different types of bronzes & brasses to suite all sorts of different occasions.Clearly you pays your money & you takes your choice ;)
 
Last edited:
Can I ask a related question:

I made my own "Brass" mounting socket for my autohelm, with a piece of "brass" rod I bought from ebay.

It sure looked, and worked like brass.

But after 2 weeks on the boat, the surface is turning pink.

I thought brass just went dark as it tarnished.

So what material have I got?

It doesn't matter too much, it's not a hull fitting, but it would be nice to know why it's turning pink rather than just going dark as it tarnishes.
 
Tranona said:
Why do you go on repeating this rubbish! Bavaria keels do not regularly fall off (like Jeanneau keels don't - even though one did last year).

All the through hulls on my Bavaria are DZR. I believe the change to brass is recent and from what I have seen is only the ball valves - but can't be sure as it is difficult to tell. I don't condone the use of brass, and the builder always has the choice of exceeding the standard. Interesting that it is only the toilet inlet(s) that are below the waterline. All oulets are on the waterline and the engine inlet is through the leg and none of them are connected to anything else metal.
Click to expand...

I did'nt say they regularly fall off I said there was the possibility of them falling off.I thought that was very diplomatic of me.......I am sorry if you feel offended it is just a personal preference of mine.I think they are a very impractical application.....no offense meant you are welcome to criticize my bilge keels :eek:
 
ProDave said:
Can I ask a related question:

I made my own "Brass" mounting socket for my autohelm, with a piece of "brass" rod I bought from ebay.

It sure looked, and worked like brass.

But after 2 weeks on the boat, the surface is turning pink.

I thought brass just went dark as it tarnished.

So what material have I got?

It doesn't matter too much, it's not a hull fitting, but it would be nice to know why it's turning pink rather than just going dark as it tarnishes.
Click to expand...

Could be just it's gayness coming out ;)
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
it seems to me ......
Click to expand...

That's the trouble. Some of us research information, or even acquire it by higher education, before posting. You appear to write whatever you guess, which is inevitably incorrect.

From this link

Manganese Bronze and Architectural Bronze

There may be confusion when brasses are incorrectly called bronze. Manganese bronze CuZn40Mn1Pb1 (CW720R) is a brass used for architectural applications where the manganese leads to the formation of an attractive chocolate brown colour. The term 'architectural bronze' is sometimes applied to a leaded brass CuZn41Pb1A which in service, due to the aluminium, develops an attractive golden lustre. Like all brasses these alloys combine longevity with an aesthetic appeal which improves with time and they give a feeling of luxury and prestige both inside and out to any building. They are available in all forms and are used for cladding, windows, doors and curtain walls. They are usually finished by waxing.
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
I did'nt say they regularly fall off I said there was the possibility of them falling off.I thought that was very diplomatic of me.......I am sorry if you feel offended it is just a personal preference of mine.I think they are a very impractical application.....no offense meant you are welcome to criticize my bilge keels :eek:
Click to expand...

That is even more rubbish if I may say so. Why does the possibility (however remote) of a keel "falling off" ANY boat have anything to do with a discussion on through hulls?

Bilge keels are not immune to falling off - ask some owners of early Westerlys, nor are moulded bilge keels immune from breaking up (as in the Seawych I built).

So, not sensitive at all just can't abide people making gratuitous comments that add nothing.
 
vyv_cox said:
Bavaria was one of the companies questioned in the small YM survey. Word from them was that their fittings are not 60/40 brass.
Click to expand...

Do you have any information on what was used by Beneteau (Oceanis 323) in the period end of 2005, early 2006 ??

I looked today at the seacocks, skin fittings and associated fittings and saw the following:
Skin fittings: brass or bronze.
Seacocks: silvery colour, with red handles.
Elbows, etc: brass or bronze.

If I had known about this problem three days earlier I could have done a proper inspection by scraping off antifouling, etc, but now the boat is back in the water, so will have to wait until next year.

Plomong
 
Plomong said:
Do you have any information on what was used by Beneteau (Oceanis 323) in the period end of 2005, early 2006 ??

I looked today at the seacocks, skin fittings and associated fittings and saw the following:
Skin fittings: brass or bronze.
Seacocks: silvery colour, with red handles.
Elbows, etc: brass or bronze.

If I had known about this problem three days earlier I could have done a proper inspection by scraping off antifouling, etc, but now the boat is back in the water, so will have to wait until next year.

Plomong
Click to expand...

I only know what YM say - Beneteau export manager says they use marine grade DZR brass. Unfortunately it is virtually impossible to differentiate DZR from 60/40 brass, which is why DZR is normally marked up as such, at least on valves.
 
Originally Posted by adam2b
In fact to be honest if YM are going to publish that sort of article I think they also have a duty to tell us which manufacturers use what, Otherwise how is it helpful? I know there was a mention from Elan and Rustler but that was it.

snooks said:
How many boat manufactures are out there? And you want YM to contact and list them all?:confused:

We do have a magazine to put together you know :D

It's your boat, how about you contact your manufacturer and ask them? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I think you just got told off for being a customer - fancy you wanting the magazine to publish information that would help you make an informed decision ha ha ha.
 
Can someone explain in very simple terms what to look for as my 2005 beneteau will be out of the water next week :confused:
 
Black Kipper said:
I think you just got told off for being a customer - fancy you wanting the magazine to publish information that would help you make an informed decision ha ha ha.
Click to expand...

No, they are right. Just think about it, how long would it take to contact every current boat builder? And there is bound to be one who is missed. Who would that upset? However if they had listed all the boats, information on which someone then relied, but a previous owner had changed from, say DZR to Homebase brass (for some reason) and the seacock subsequently failed, there would then follow a rant saying how bad YM are at publishing facts.

The article is extremely good, it has made us all talk about seacocks (you know those things hidden away out sight out of mind) and I for one now know what to be looking for when I change all seacocks and skin fittings next winter.

Dont be too hard on the guys.
 
SimbaDog said:
Can someone explain in very simple terms what to look for as my 2005 beneteau will be out of the water next week :confused:
Click to expand...

Look on my website at http://coxengineering.co.uk/BandB.aspx You are looking for the pink colour of the copper that remains when the zinc is leached out. A surface discolouration will not be a problem, if you see any, file some metal off to find how deep it extends.

However, as Galadriel has pointed out, buying the current YM to read this first-class article seems a small investment for a full understanding of the problem.

The suggestion that the magazine should contact every manufacturer to find what material they use for skin fittings is ludicrous. I recently found a list of every manufacturer who fits PSS seals - it ran to more than two, closely typed pages. Assuming this to represent something like 20%(?) of all boats ... well, I'll let someone else work it out.
 
vyv_cox said:
I only know what YM say - Beneteau export manager says they use marine grade DZR brass. Unfortunately it is virtually impossible to differentiate DZR from 60/40 brass, which is why DZR is normally marked up as such, at least on valves.
Click to expand...

Yes, he could be right. Most fittings (esp. seacocks) have some figures and letters on them, but most will only be legible using a mirror or by photographing them. Some of the numbers are visible, and give the size of the fitting, e.g. 3/8".

Have inspected 3 fittings from outside by heeling the boat. All look OK, up as far as the ball of the ball valves. The external surfaces did not show any unusual colouring when antifouling removed.

Will photograph lettering on all fittings tomorrow, and report back on what I find.

By the way, thanks for the reference in a post above -- the page describing bronzes and brasses is very clear, and helpful. Thanks.

Plomong
 
vyv_cox said:
Look on my website at http://coxengineering.co.uk/BandB.aspx You are looking for the pink colour of the copper that remains when the zinc is leached out. A surface discolouration will not be a problem, if you see any, file some metal off to find how deep it extends.

However, as Galadriel has pointed out, buying the current YM to read this first-class article seems a small investment for a full understanding of the problem.

The suggestion that the magazine should contact every manufacturer to find what material they use for skin fittings is ludicrous. I recently found a list of every manufacturer who fits PSS seals - it ran to more than two, closely typed pages. Assuming this to represent something like 20%(?) of all boats ... well, I'll let someone else work it out.
Click to expand...

That's brilliant, thanks a lot :)
 
I was quite concerned when I found that all the skin fittings on the 2003 Jeanneau I've just bought are some sort of plastic. I can't be specific as to what. (On an identical model 2004 boat they are all metal but again I don't know exactly what metal.)

However having read this thread, maybe I should be pleased!

What is the general opinion - are these plastic ones up to the job long term?

vyv-cox - what do you think please? As a metallurgist do you trust non-metals?
 
galadriel said:
No, they are right. Just think about it, how long would it take to contact every current boat builder? And there is bound to be one who is missed. Who would that upset? However if they had listed all the boats, information on which someone then relied, but a previous owner had changed from, say DZR to Homebase brass (for some reason) and the seacock subsequently failed, there would then follow a rant saying how bad YM are at publishing facts.

The article is extremely good, it has made us all talk about seacocks (you know those things hidden away out sight out of mind) and I for one now know what to be looking for when I change all seacocks and skin fittings next winter.

Dont be too hard on the guys.
Click to expand...

I was objecting to the snooty put down by Snooks - the article may well be good but if a company spoke to me like that - I'd find a different supplier.
 
Black Kipper said:
I think you just got told off for being a customer - fancy you wanting the magazine to publish information that would help you make an informed decision ha ha ha.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a telling off, and I apologise if it came across as one. Just a request think about what you were asking Yachting Monthly to do.

I'm not denying it would have been a great thing to do, but it's frought with problem as Galadriel points out

It would have been impossible to contact every boat builder for every reader who's had a built a boat since the RCD. Even then it doesn't allow for any boat yard or owner who might have replaced a seacock or skin fitting.
 
Well, this has proved a fruitful thread. Thanks to all contributions. I will go back to my yacht while still out of the water and removed the anti-foul off all the through-hulls and see what I find. Meanwhile off to the newsagent tomorrow for Yachting Monthly

TS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top