Check Your Marine Insurance ... because:

OGITD

OGITD

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I was having a chat with a very pleasant and knowledgeable Sailor who during the course of our conversation informed me that he wasn't insured for night-time and/or single-handed sailing ..... which gave me cause for concern, as I had been doing this last season & thoroughly enjoying myself to-boot!

So! .... I'm just off the phone.... and am very pleased to report that I am covered .... but there are some policies which don't automatically include this cover .... so it's definitely worth checking!

OG.
 
Quite a few policies exclude night-time singlehanding. However, the policy wording normally mentions sunset, rather than dark, and a lot of people wandering gently back to their moorings in the early evening may technically be uninsured!
 
Best read all the small print while your at it, also do a forum search for much more info re ins

OGITD said:
I was having a chat with a very pleasant and knowledgeable Sailor who during the course of our conversation informed me that he wasn't insured for night-time and/or single-handed sailing ..... which gave me cause for concern, as I had been doing this last season & thoroughly enjoying myself to-boot!

So! .... I'm just off the phone.... and am very pleased to report that I am covered .... but there are some policies which don't automatically include this cover .... so it's definitely worth checking!

OG.
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OGITD said:
I was having a chat with a very pleasant and knowledgeable Sailor who during the course of our conversation informed me that he wasn't insured for night-time and/or single-handed sailing ..... which gave me cause for concern, as I had been doing this last season & thoroughly enjoying myself to-boot!

So! .... I'm just off the phone.... and am very pleased to report that I am covered .... but there are some policies which don't automatically include this cover .... so it's definitely worth checking!

OG.
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This was a trait a few years ago when some insures reduced the risk by cutting down cover on single handed sailing. It seems they also wanted to reduce risk relating to passage length when single handing so some specified a maximum length of passage where others said no sailing from sunset to sunrise.

I discussed this with several well known insurance companies at SIBS a few years ago and with few exceptions it seems they were prepared to remove these exclusions either for no cost, a minimal increase in premium or increase in excess. The costs were minimal but the matter had to be addressed to ensure cover was in place. One thing that surprised me. When questioned, one company at least offered single handed including night time but for a designated maximum period at sea however no maximum size of boat???????

Talk to your insurers as this seems to be negotiable.
 
If there are still forumites out there who haven't read through their insurance policies after the number of threads on the subject they are either very new or a bit thick.
Boat insurance is not like car insurance where a minimum cover is prescribed by law and the market for the extras is discriminated by price. Boat insurance has no other description than is contained in the policy documents. Different companies have different clauses so assume nothing, read carefully and make sure the cover is what you want and the exclusion clauses do not leave you uninsured. If in doubt contact the insurer and clarify then, if necessary, get the clarification in writing. It is definitely a case of "buyer beware".
 
MoodySabre said:
You make it sound as though it is illegal to be uninsured. Wandering gently seems worth the risk. My policy says single-handed in daylight hours - I'm not going to check what that means.
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Mine is the same - NO probs SH but not after sunset. I could extend it to night-time I think, for some extra premium, but haven't bothered because its an extremely unlikely event for me.
 
I would never entertain a policy that didn't cover me for single handing at night, who knows what delays might stop me reaching my destination by nightfall.
It is amazing that someone would buy insurance and not know if they are getting the cover that they require.
 
I never had cover for transats as they wanted three on board, but there is less chance of hitting something in a big ocean, so insurance wasn't really needed. Another part of the wording to check when you sail from one region/area to another is how and where you report your arrival in a new cruising area. I was caught out by this many years ago. The Azores are not Europe!
 
wotayottie said:
according to the eu they are. as indeed are the canaries.
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But according to the insurance companies they may not be, and it's their opinion that matters.

If they just said "Europe" and didn't define it further, then the EU's definition may be relevant in arguing your case. But the policies I've read have all been very specific about geographical areas, using a mixture of specific ports and lat/long. I'm told that in law a contract can define words to mean whatever it likes, even if those definitions conflict with common uses of the words. It's only if they were not defined (or the definition was ambiguous) that the fun starts - and that doesn't seem to be a common problem with geographical limits in marine insurance policies.

Pete
 
castoffandgone said:
additional annual premium of £28.20
- Sorted
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Are you sure it's an additional annual premium of £28.20 and not a £3.20 premium increase with a £25 admin charge for the change? That's usually the case on car insurance where any change gets a £25 one off charge whether the premium changes or not.
 
Yep agree, I discovered quite a few years ago that I wasn't covered, all it took was a phone call and I was covered (no additional charge).

Also check anchoring/boat unattended, some only cover you while the boat is still in sight.

GJW - is one that you need to check carefully, but they are good at making changes without any fuss.
 
macd said:
+1
Rarely a bad practice, anyway.
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As an example, I have been insured with the same company for ten years and two boats. When first discussing cover I pointed out that I would be taking the boat home from Plymouth to Orkney single handed. During the discussion it transpired that we were both YM Instructors and a 'gentleman's agreement' was made that they did not want to have a claim due to fatigue. I sailed like this for two or three years during which time my original contact retired.

The next time single handing came up for discussion was a renewal document that specified two competent persons on board whenever underway. As this was a warranted clause the insurance policy would be void if I even move the boat a hundred metres by myself. The best they were prepared to offer was a limit of passages with 'a maximum planned duration of 18 hours'. Not a great problem as I normally aim for around this when coastal cruising. I could not get them to extend coverage for a northern North Sea crossing (Shetland to Norway, 200 miles) but they did offer to put me back on cover once I was in Norwegian waters.

When the policy for my second boat arrived the single handed clause was cut back to daylight hours only (As an aside: If we take daylight to include the times of civil twilight this would allow me to stay at sea continuously for a couple of months in the waters around Shetland). I immediately phoned to point out that this was a ridiculous limitation when coastal passage making as it would frequently prevent working the tides to best advantage. This was conceded and as I already had the 18 hour clause on my other policy they allowed me to keep it, however the excess doubles when single handed.

This pattern seems to confirm a point made in a similar thread a few years ago suggesting that as we get older yacht insurance companies continue to offer cover but gradually restrict our freedom to do the things they used to accept.

As a footnote it is worth remembering that strictly speaking breaking a 'warranted clause', even if it does not result in a claim, renders the policy void. During the north sea discussion my broker was surprised that I was aware of this.
 
I have the tee shirt and the video on this one. Canaries are definitely not included as "in Europe" for most insurance companies. Mine (GJW) don't routinely cover the Canaries but at a very reasonable extra cost agreed to do so because I've been with them for many years.

Anyway it beggars belief that anyone would pay loadsamoney for insurance for a very expensive bit of kit and not go through it with a fine toothed comb!

Dec

If they just said "Europe" and didn't define it further, then the EU's definition may be relevant in arguing your case. But the policies I've read have all been very specific about geographical areas, using a mixture of specific ports and lat/long. I'm told that in law a contract can define words to mean whatever it likes, even if those definitions conflict with common uses of the words. It's only if they were not defined (or the definition was ambiguous) that the fun starts - and that doesn't seem to be a common problem with geographical limits in marine insurance policies.

Pete[/QUOTE]
 
windlipper said:
Mine (GJW) don't routinely cover the Canaries

Anyway it beggars belief that anyone would pay loadsamoney for insurance for a very expensive bit of kit and not go through it with a fine toothed comb!
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My GJW policy is very explicit on the front page what and when is covered on this matter -difficult to miss, and no need to ferret around the detail of the policy booklet for this.

Before I had mine changed to include night single handed, I asked about the situation where I was late on planned passage, and they said that I would be covered - it was passages going through the night that would attract the possibility of not being insured. This may well be different for other companies, so if people have this clause and worried about an hour or two either side of daylight then in may be best to clarify exactly what is meant by it.
 
LadyInBed said:
I would never entertain a policy that didn't cover me for single handing at night, who knows what delays might stop me reaching my destination by nightfall.
(snip).
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I had similar concerns & my insurers assured me that if I was caught out for some reason beyond my control I would still be insured. Ther exclusion was intended to prevent planned night time solo sailing. That was acceptable for me, altho there are time when a night passage may be the best option, I share their concerns over the need for a second person aboard if only to help spot & count the lights.
 
windlipper said:
I have the tee shirt and the video on this one. Canaries are definitely not included as "in Europe" for most insurance companies. Mine (GJW) don't routinely cover the Canaries but at a very reasonable extra cost agreed to do so because I've been with them for many years.
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[/QUOTE]

Atlantic islands - Canaries, Madeira, Azores etc are included within Europe on my Towergate policy, so is single handed day or night.
 
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