Cheapest tow vehicle - suppositions, guesses and maths

Lakesailor said:
Quite.

Forget the Caravan Club. Forget 85%

If you are planning to tow a trailer with a load the Police will look at two things

1: the manufacturer's Maximum Towing Weight on a plate .

2 : The weighbridge ticket.
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Thank you lake sailor. A weighbridge Ticket.
They only cost £5. But can save a lot of time, and trouble. Firstly if you have an accident your insurance companies loss adjuster will not be able to use the argument that the car was towing something too heavy for it.
Secondly if you have a weighbridge ticket and the Police pull you up and you show them the ticket, they can not ask you to follow them to a weighbridge to be weighed which will probably add an hour to your journey.
When I bought my last boat I had the weighbridge people write on the ticket ""Complete with (boat name) on trailer"". and kept the ticket in my glove box for 5 years. PS> You have to detach the trailer from the car.
 
I have used a Ford Galaxy 2.3 as a tow vehicle. They really are excellent towing cars. I once got the combination up to 100mph on the flat in France with an 11m sailplane trailer around 850kg plus 4 people and their gear in the back of the car. I know they can handle up to 1500kg and 1000kg would put you well inside the recommended 85% kerb weight. around 30mpg when loaded and driven as a car. Rarely fell below 23 mpg when towing the sailplane. ( Although at 100mph it did get a little alarming :) )

With the seats stripped out I doubt there is much short of a van that will compare for space for sailing gear, twice as much, if not more than a discovery! ) and what's more I have seen a decent bed fitted into the back of them!

I just happen to have one that might be up for sale. In what is now fashionable white too! :) ( only kidding it'll probably go on eBay )
 
Flying Penguin said:
Methinks you misunderstand what they are aiming for ;). Not every load requires a vehicle that could take on the amazon delta, even a 1.4 Corsa has a towing capacity of a ton, and many of them do tow smaller trailers.

Any pillock can weld four wheels and a towbar to a 2 ton lump of deadweight and stick a 300hp v8 on it, It would probably tow more than the Jetta, but doesn't mean it would be either a leap forwards or a good towcar for the class. It would be pretty pointless an award if the sole question was which was the latest big engined land rover. They get a category to themselves, which the VW Toerag won, but they aren't the only type of tow vehicle that is safe, though you'd be a tool if you bought a Jetta on their recommendation when you actually needed a large lump of pig iron! :)
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Indeed.
I find my V6 Rover very good for towing racing dinghies. It's not the amount it will tow, it's the fact that it will still overtake things on the A38, power out of a corner and occasionally outbrake things.
It is much less stressful to drive than an under-powered car-trailer combination. Due to the width of the boat, I have enough to worry about without wondering if I am going to run out of power or whatever. My previous car would fly up hills with the boat if you didn't get baulked, but you need to thrash it through the gears to get back to 60mph up hill. Much nicer to be able to go with the flow of the traffic.
The fuel consumption is painful when towing, but I don't do that many towing miles per year.

I would not fancy it for a heavy boat though. Horses for courses.
I think what makes a good heavy towing vehicle is a good spread of torque, the right gear ratios and good throttle response. Some vehicles it's easy to be in the right gear, some seem to catch you out all the time. Then theres the dynamics/stability, the right nose weight on the trailer helps, but the weight distribution of the car and its setup will also have effects. Hence a recommended towcar might be worth a look. But remember the ones they test are all new, with new shocks and no shagged out bushes in the suspension...
 
weighbridge ticket

The idea of buying a weighbridge ticket is a good one

there is one at the local dump where I used to do shifts

(during one of my thinly employed periods that often afflicts BBC freelances)

not much help for the day when I pick the boat up though

as for the suggestions so far.....

the campaervan might be an expensive way to go - and towing all that extra weight seems a waste

an old transit seems like a good idea - although my wife will kick up a fuss about living with a transit on the drive

I have some work persuading my wife that I should throw even moremoney at the boat project

right now renting a pick-up to tow it looks like the short term solution

£95 a day - first 150 miles free - then 45 pence a mile on top of that

so I reckon 250 miles all up - half a tank of fuel at £50 -0 maybe a tad more

The boat will sit in the garden for a while...

as there is some prep work that needs doing.

I think I am slowly moving towards a weighbridge ticket and a big old volvo estate

Dylan
 
Lakesailor said:
Quite.

Forget the Caravan Club. Forget 85%

If you are planning to tow a trailer with a load the Police will look at two things

1: the manufacturer's Maximum Towing Weight on a plate under your bonnet (it's different for different models with different engines, gearboxes and model years. A "diesel Mondeo" means nothing).

2 : The weighbridge ticket.

If 2 is greater than 1 you are in trouble.

Check your model's rating here http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/ford.htm (and check again on the plate)
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What he says, but you need to check that both car trailer and stuff inside don't go over your max train weight.

Also, if you are going for 2 wheel drive, buy a winch, Takes a lot of the stress out of boat recovery, means you can park the tow car on a non slippery surface and winch the boat up to it. Don't even need to put the car wheels in the nasty salty stuff.
 
dylanwinter said:
The idea of buying a weighbridge ticket is a good one

there is one at the local dump where I used to do shifts

not much help for the day when I pick the boat up though

Dylan
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There will be a weighbridge near to your collection point. Just a question of locating it. However if it shows you are overweight you are stuffed anyway. A hire Transit or pick-up with a tow bar would do the job.
If you are proposing to hire a pick-up and do the job yourself, have you looked at the smaller boat delivery people? Often ads on Boats and Outboards etc.
 
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I occasionally tow my dinghy with 1999 Space Wagon (Mitsubishi) 2.4GDI 7 seater.

Remove seats and use as a van,careful driving rewards 30+MPG.Good for 1600kg tow.Can buy these for around £1000.
 
Dylan, how often are you going to tow and will you need to launch with the tow vehicle too? I think those are fundamental questions. I used to tow (and launch) a Leisure 17 (about 11 - 1200kg with the trailer) with an old Reliant Scimitar. Clearly it had the "grunt" but not the weight. I'd have been royally stuffed if playing by the "Caravan Club rules"! It towed (and launched) absolutely fine. HOWEVER, our next boat was an Evolution 22 which, although not much heavier, towed like a COMPLETE PIG! I bought a Series III Landrover to tow it and even then it could still get a bit of a "snake" on! For what it cost me in petrol (yes, a petrol Series III!) to tow it from Blackpool to Fort William and back, I could probably have just driven up there in an ordinary car, bought a boat, sailed it for a week ,scuttled it, and driven home for less!

The point I'm making is that a great deal depends on the boat and trailer. I'd be inclined to agree that (at least at this stage) hiring when necessary is the way to go. Any vehicle bought "just for towing" will be an ongoing burden even when you're not using it (tax, MOT, insurance etc). My Series III turned into almost as demanding (and expensive) a "project" as the boat and if you buy anything really cheap, the same will probably be true for you!

Regarding the legality, I agree with Lakesailor. They're the only things you need to worry about (plus the driver licensing requirements). The only thing I'd add to his earlier post is that the "Chassis plate" isn't always under the bonnet - sometimes its on the door pillar or in the door shut area. They can be a real pain to spot! PC Plod won't care how many weighbridge tickets you've got. If he thinks you're overloaded, he'll take you to a VOSA weighbridge and either do you or not depending on what he sees on the day. A local weighbridge ticket would only be useful for your own peace of mind. The chassis plate will have the vehicle manufacturer's name on it, the type apporval number (usually starting with a lower case letter "e" followed by a series of numbers and asterisks), and then weights. They are ALWAYS in the same order. The first is the maximum the vehicle can weigh. The second (and always largest) is the maximum the vehicle PLUS TRAILER can weigh. If PC Plod is going to do you for being overloaded, it will be because the number he sees on the weighbridge is bigger than the second number on your car's manufacturer's plate. (Note that there are other things he can do you for though - like trailer brakes not working, trailer tyres in poor condition, duff trailer lights, boat insecure etc).
 
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Plod will also look at the plated maximum mass of the trailer. Your car needs to be able to tow that I believe, even if you are only towing it half loaded. A friend of mine has 3 Tonne gross trailer, I cannot even legally tow it empty. Or so I am told.
But it was a policeman wot told me...
Plod will look at the plates and look if anything appears to be down on its springs.
They won't be looking up 'Leisure 23' in the observer's book of boats to guess its mass.
If your vehicle weaves or wobbles you are far more likely to get pulled IMHO.
So make sure the trailer is not plated for more than you need.
 
lw395 said:
Plod will also look at the plated maximum mass of the trailer. Your car needs to be able to tow that I believe, even if you are only towing it half loaded. A friend of mine has 3 Tonne gross trailer, I cannot even legally tow it empty. Or so I am told.
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This is true. Indespension told me that. Alistairr of these forums confirmed that when buying a new trailer.
There is nothing to stop you legally having a new trailer plate made with the GTW within your vehicle's max towing weight, but you mustn't exceed that new trailer plate loading.

The Plod will stop you for stuff like no mudguards, no lights, loose trailer board, flapping ropes/covers, saggy tyres etc.
Make it look proper.
 
Also your insurers will get stroppy if you have an accident. I know of one case where the insurers were refusing to pay as they did not believe the boat was properly secured on the trailer. It is not worth taking chances, even to save money.
 
I was concerned about the plated weight on one of our trailers as it took us into tachograph territory. I called up Ifor Williams about replating it, and was told that it no longer mattered, it was what the trailer weighed at the time that counted.

I always thought it'd be difficult explaining that 'I'd been told by someone that it didn't matter' so I tried to research it, but haven't really found a definitive answer.

The speedos on most vehicles exceed 70mph, but I think they have to catch you doing it!
 
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Corribee Boy said:
I always thought it'd be difficult explaining that 'I'd been told by someone that it didn't matter' so I tried to research it, but haven't really found a definitive answer.
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Can Ifor Williams give you a reference for you to follow-up? As you say, if the advice was wrong, you have no leg to stand on.

I found this
REMEMBER, the law does not care whether the trailer is empty or packed to the roof with bricks, what counts is the plated gross vehicle weight of the trailer.
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on this web site. http://www.armitagetrailers.com/trailerlaw.htm (braked trailers)

You could try giving them a call to verify what they are publishing is still the law.
 
No, nothing that I could quote: the advice they gave was along the lines of 'our top man, Bob, had a meeting with a top man at DVLA (or something similar) who told him....

It's certainly not something I could rely on, but in the case in question it was very marginal (I was possibly about 1 km outside the 50km distance for needing a tacho, but as I can't find a definition of the measurement - as driven, as the crow flies, etc - I thought I'd chance it.;)

I still think the speedo analogy ought to work, but don't really believe it would!
 
Corribee Boy said:
I was concerned about the plated weight on one of our trailers as it took us into tachograph territory. I called up Ifor Williams about replating it, and was told that it no longer mattered, it was what the trailer weighed at the time that counted.

I always thought it'd be difficult explaining that 'I'd been told by someone that it didn't matter' so I tried to research it, but haven't really found a definitive answer.

The speedos on most vehicles exceed 70mph, but I think they have to catch you doing it!
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I believe that's the correct interpretation too. I've heard lots of talk about it being illegal to tow an empy trailer that has a higher plated weight than the maximum the towing vehicle can pull, but I think it's nonsense. Nobody has ever managed to quote me the actual "regulations" that impose this demand. From a purely common-sense point of view, it would be like getting prosecuted because your car is CAPABLE of more than 70 MPH - regardless of the speed that it is actually DOING!

From a practical point of view, what's the "crime" that the officer is going to prosecute for? All he has available to him at the time he "pulls" you is the Gross Train Weight from the manufacturer's plate on the car and (if the trailer is new enough to have one) the trailers "plated" weight (i.e. it's maximum permitted weight). He won't necessarily have the vehicle handbook available or the vehicle's EC Certificate of Conformity showing the maximum weight it can tow at the time he stops you, so how does he know what the car is authorised to tow? The only thing he can do is weigh the whole lot and see if the number on the weighbridge is bigger than the Gross Train Weight number on the chassis plate. (If he ws being really thorough, he could weigh each axle on the towing vehicle separately to see if you'd exceeded either of the max. permitted axle weights (the last two numbers on the car's chassis plate) too, I guess.
 
It's an argument you don't want to have at the roadside.
It would be nice if the law was clearer!

The thing is, I rarely stick rigidly to the 60mph towing limit, so they could always do me for that, if they thought I was a hazard and they wanted an easy life.

Personally, I'd prefer to have a vehicle that was well capable of towing what I wanted, that gives you a bit of design margin if you get caught in crosswinds, allows for the suspension not being new etc.
 
Dylan.

I haven't read every post in the thread, so apols if I'm repeating something, but...

Trailing a maximum of 85% or 90% of the car's weight is a good rule of thumb, but every model has a manufacturer's recomended max towing weight (RMTW). German cars tend to have lower RMTW's in relation to the car's weight, don't know why. Others have higher.

When we were researching what to pull our boat with the car (as opposed to Land Rover / other 4WD) that really stuck out as having a big RMTW relative to it's own weight was the Citroen C5, which (in it's bigger engine models) was rec'd to pull up to 2,500Kg (if memory serves - may not be accurate, but you get the idea).

I wouldn't recommend a van - b****r to reverse, cos of the visibility. A cheap old reliable heavy car would be fine. If you identify a model, you can google the rec'd towing weight.

We pull a total of about 1,200Kg with our Volvo V40 (ie the small Volvo estate) 1.9 diesel and it's absolutely fine.
 
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