Cheap Chinese Diesel Heaters the Return !

[Bigplumbs]

Ok here is an odd one to me, and would like if somebody can explain it to me, i am speaking to a BSS examiner about tis at the and e is not explaining, but then they are like dodgy MOT inspectors anyway.

I want to fit te heater unit in the main cabin in its own sealed locker, have a 20l tank and all fittings will be decent ones, not te naff they come with. Which can be used on an interim time whilst the BSS is updated on these units.

These units are sealed, the same as the Propex HS200, and the Propex can be in the cabin in an unsealed locker/cabinet.

Both the LPG and Diesel heaters draw cold air in and blow out warm heated are into the main cabin. Both units draw in and exhaust combustion gasses into and out the boat.

But the diesel heaters are not allowed into the main cabin at all, even in a sealed locker.


What am i missing but for the BSS a bit crap with things.

C Faffer

I dont know but to be honest but the BSS is a little naff in my view. I have seen many Diesel heaters installed in main cabins but these are generally on sea boats on the sea which of course do not require a BSS (Work that one out)

Given that BSS Inspectors vary some what in what and how they do the inspection I would choose one and ask him what he would approve. There is also of course the option to do the whole installation then simply remove the offending parts for the inspection if you are happy that your installation is safe

 

[waynes world]

I dont know but to be honest but the BSS is a little naff in my view. I have seen many Diesel heaters installed in main cabins but these are generally on sea boats on the sea which of course do not require a BSS (Work that one out)

Given that BSS Inspectors vary some what in what and how they do the inspection I would choose one and ask him what he would approve. There is also of course the option to do the whole installation then simply remove the offending parts for the inspection if you are happy that your installation is safe

Over the time i have worked on peoples boats i am still shocked at how some even get near a BSS. Scary some infact . Some more dangerous as in bad LPG work and wood burning stoves with little or no heart and not even insulated properly.

Te BSS is good and bad. But inspectors need to keep to it,

And yes i may well do get the BSS then fit the heater later, i am not one for doing that but unless they can tell me way it is so dangerous ten i will do.

It is even allowed to use the plastic filter and naff fuel lines ect, on an interim basis though while the BSSC decide wat to do.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Over the time i have worked on peoples boats i am still shocked at how some even get near a BSS. Scary some infact . Some more dangerous as in bad LPG work and wood burning stoves with little or no heart and not even insulated properly.

Te BSS is good and bad. But inspectors need to keep to it,

And yes i may well do get the BSS then fit the heater later, i am not one for doing that but unless they can tell me way it is so dangerous ten i will do.

It is even allowed to use the plastic filter and naff fuel lines ect, on an interim basis though while the BSSC decide wat to do.

On my boat I used the following items which I felt were ok/good:

1) The exhaust Tubing
2) The green fuel line
3) The Ducting

I replaced:

A) The Exhaust
B) The Jubilee Clips
c) I bought a smaller tank which holds about 5 ltrs. The fuel lines exit at the top with a clunk weight inside. I use heating oil as the fuel

My installation is in a rear locker in the outside part of the boat and is self contained with ventilation to the outside air. I can inspect it all very easily and nothing is hidden out of the way. I can remove the whole heater, and tank in about 5 - 10 mins. The small tank is in this same locker but is a reasonable way away from the heater. It is never used when the boat is underway.

On many small ribs and speed boats it is interesting that very often the fuel tank (Petrol) is in the same locker/seat/console as the battery and quite a lot of iffy wiring and a very large battery isolator switch !!

 

[waynes world]

On my boat I used the following items which I felt were ok/good:

1) The exhaust Tubing
2) The green fuel line
3) The Ducting

I replaced:

A) The Exhaust
B) The Jubilee Clips
c) I bought a smaller tank which holds about 5 ltrs. The fuel lines exit at the top with a clunk weight inside. I use heating oil as the fuel

My installation is in a rear locker in the outside part of the boat and is self contained with ventilation to the outside air. I can inspect it all very easily and nothing is hidden out of the way. I can remove the whole heater, and tank in about 5 - 10 mins. The small tank is in this same locker but is a reasonable way away from the heater. It is never used when the boat is underway.

On many small ribs and speed boats it is interesting that very often the fuel tank (Petrol) is in the same locker/seat/console as the battery and quite a lot of iffy wiring and a very large battery isolator switch !!

Some of the items you ave used and many other folk will be not allowed soon with the BSS, i am in no way saying there unsafe, just what i know in how the BSS will be changing, not that it matters to a lot of people on here.

This is from a BSS examiner that they got from the BSSC

Coincidentally, this very subject was a main topic of conversa;on at a BSS Technical Commi?ee mee;ng last Tuesday. The BSS is aware that products like this are currently flooding the market and has agreed to work with other interested par;es such as Trading Standards and Bri;sh Marine to review their acceptability. However, as an interim posi;on, BSSTC has provisionally agreed the following: 1. Examiners may accept unmarked plas;c fuel tanks (wherever located) connected to diesel heaters and stoves provided they have an capacity of no more then 10lt and appear to be of proprietary manufacture (e.g. they look like they were manufactured for use with such appliances) 2. Examiners may accept unmarked plas;c/nylon fuel lines (including the very short sec;ons of hose), connec;ons, plas;c filters, etc (wherever located) provided they appear to be of proprietary manufacture (e.g. they look like they were manufactured for use with such appliances) In addi;on: 3. The tanks and the fuel lines must be in good condi;on with no signs of damage or deteriora;on, missing components, or leaking fuel. If such issues are found then record a fail at the appropriate Check 4. The tank must be securely installed. If it’s not then record a fail at 2.5.1. 5. The fuel lines must be adequately secured so that they are not pulling on their connec;ons. If they are not adequately secured then record a fail at 2.10.3. 6. All fuel line connec;ons must be as specified at Checks 2.11.1 and 2.11.2, other than pipes are not required to have formed ends where connected to hose. 7. All connec;ons must be securely installed (including filters, pumps etc), and if not a fail can be recorded at 2.11.3. However, it is accepted that there may be some movement where such connec;ons/components are connected to hose or plas;c/ nylon lines. Also, the Examiner must inform the boat owner, preferably in wri;ng, that the current acceptance of unmarked diesel tanks of up to 10lt capacity and the acceptance of unmarked, unspecified material, fuel lines is an interim posi;on and that such materials may not comply with BSS Requirements in the future. Over the next few weeks all Examiners will be contacted by the BSS regarding the above, but in the mean;me you may Examine the boats in ques;on using the above approach




And like me i dont give up until i prove a point where i am correct.

I got an email about an hour ago saying that the heaters are will pass the BSS, now, e changed is tune a bit wen i pointed out they are room sealed . so if they are roomed sealed they will pass BSS. like all the ones i have seen anyway and have ad are. so draw air and exhaust from the outside.

 

[waynes world]

This is where i will be fitting mine. Cutting into the locker as it is wasted space, so it will have its own sealed locker and exhausting out behind the lining board, or back to the rear deck side
I just ope it does better than in the workshop where i am taking it from.

 

[TNLI]

This is where i will be fitting mine. Cutting into the locker as it is wasted space, so it will have its own sealed locker and exhausting out behind the lining board, or back to the rear deck side
I just ope it does better than in the workshop where i am taking it from.

A lot safer above decks. I sold my old one to a chap who did say that he was fitting it in a special box above decks.

 

[Bigplumbs]

This is where i will be fitting mine. Cutting into the locker as it is wasted space, so it will have its own sealed locker and exhausting out behind the lining board, or back to the rear deck side
I just ope it does better than in the workshop where i am taking it from.

That looks like a good place to me. Just make sure it has good access

 

[waynes world]

A lot safer above decks. I sold my old one to a chap who did say that he was fitting it in a special box above decks.

A few folk say that, but if using the correct fittings then its as safe as a Propex HS2000 with a marine kit, which as its an LPG heater ten more dangerous than diesel if you get problems wit bad fitting, and they can be fitted in any space not a sealed locker.

That looks like a good place to me. Just make sure it has good access

That red square will be a cut out lid for the eater to go in, its empty space at the minute so a waste. I ave space under the rear deck gunnels but that will make it harder to fit, and as we know some boats are limited to usefull space. I am even having the locker to the bulkhead side for the leisure batteries ( sealed ) as there will be a calorifier in the engine well now, and the 20l diesel tank for the eater plus twp starter batteries. Its a jig about but worth it to get stuff set out good.

 

[Jim@sea]

Well several years ago I posted what became a very long and shall we say interesting thread about Cheap Chinese Diesel Heaters. Enough time has elapsed to establish that they are actually very good and reliable and my 2, one in the Boat and the Other in My workshop have been working very well for a few years now.

I have now bought for the Princely sum of £85 all in delivered an 'all in one' unit that has a variety of uses me thinks, provided you can successfully duct the exhaust gases to the outside air. You are of course burning fossil fuel to keep warm but to my knowledge there is not a viable Battery powered alternative.

I am thinking this could be used under the canvas on a fly bridge, in and awning for a caravan or camper or even in a suitable tent, In a garden shed, Workshop, Garage or similar........ Just remember that exhaust.

Here is a little video of what you get. I will be firing her up soon and posting some more info. Let us all know what you think.

I may buy one of these.
I did have a Japanese made Corona Inverter Space Heater which ran on Paraffin which I bought in France. The French love them especially Brittany where there is no Mains Gas, and the majority of supermarkets sell 25 litre drums of Paraffin, whereas in the UK Paraffin costs a fortune (can we not bring back pumps which sell Alladdin Pink or Esso Blue)
Anyway with these Chinease Heaters being Diesel you can still buy Red Diesel and as they are 12 volt when there is a power cut they will still work.

 

[waynes world]

I may buy one of these.
I did have a Japanese made Corona Inverter Space Heater which ran on Paraffin which I bought in France. The French love them especially Brittany where there is no Mains Gas, and the majority of supermarkets sell 25 litre drums of Paraffin, whereas in the UK Paraffin costs a fortune (can we not bring back pumps which sell Alladdin Pink or Esso Blue)
Anyway with these Chinease Heaters being Diesel you can still buy Red Diesel and as they are 12 volt when there is a power cut they will still work.

Red diesel is same as white just with added colour.

 

[limecc]

Red diesel is same as white just with added colour.

Are you sure it's not got more sulphur in it? Lower quality?

 

[waynes world]

Are you sure it's not got more sulphur in it? Lower quality?

Not that I know off and used to use it a lot I all types of engines. I am sure the chemicals are the same in each fuel. Its just added colour so the government can tell the difference on checks etc.

 

[Fire99]

Red diesel is same as white just with added colour.

Yup. No difference in the fuel quality.. Just a dye added to identify its taxable status.

 

[TNLI]

Yup. No difference in the fuel quality.. Just a dye added to identify its taxable status.

Depends on the manufacturer, but in general terms cheap Red diesel does not contain additives to increase lubricity, the gell point in winter, or any safe biocides. It is nearly always contaminated with higher levels of Sulphur in comparison with a major brand road diesel.

My advice to anyone that needs to use it is to avoid idle or low power use, as the Sulphur will form Sulphuric acid if the cylinders are too cool, and that will in the long term result in increased wear of the rings, valve guides and exhaust vale seating. The lack of lubricity is best overcome by adding some Bio diesel from a farm pump, or an additive from Liqui Moly that is designed to overcome that concern. Cheap road diesel freezes at minus 15c in winter or about minus 5c in summer, the slightly more expensive major brand road diesel will gell up at minus 23c in winter!

No idea what the gell point is for cheap red diesel, but if it's too high, wax forms in the primary fuel filter first. You can buy fuel filter heater kits if you are way up North and your boats tank area is not insulated well enough. Lack of lubricty additives results in long term degradation of the oil seals in the high pressure injection pump.

Vitamins for your motor: LIQUI MOLY (liqui-moly.com)

 

[gordmac]

Are the lubricity additives not there to replace the lubrication from sulphur? I seem to recall the introduction of low sulphur diesel causing problems in road vehicles.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Red diesel is legally used by all sorts of vehicles both on and off the road from Tractors, Lorry's, Folk lifts etc etc so I don't think there is any difference except for the colour additive

 

[Rappey]

The cheap Chinese ones are steel.

The case may be steel but the combustion chamber is aluminium as its a great conductor of heat. Steel would be hopeless in comparison. Think of an air cooled motorbike engine ? The one you linked to even says it is aluminium combustion chamber so I'm still at a loss as to how it rusted through ?
The one you link is a portable unit. I would assume nearly everyone here fits a non portable type to their boats which are plastic cased and aluminium combustion Chambers.

 

[Rappey]

Red diesel is same as white just with added colour.

"Marine diesel" has a low sulphur content and no bio. Mdl advertise the fact that they sell only proper marine diesel.
I discovered 3 categories for red diesel, two start with EN and one with BS. The bs is real marine diesel, containing no bio and a small amount of sulphur.
The en,s contain up to 4% and up to 7.5% bio (at the time of reading). Both can also be sold as marine diesel though

From rpm fuels Web site
"White diesel is the ultra-low sulphur diesel typically used for road-going vehicles. White diesel also contains a higher concentration of cetane than red diesel."

 

[TNLI]

The case may be steel but the combustion chamber is aluminium as its a great conductor of heat. Steel would be hopeless in comparison. Think of an air cooled motorbike engine ? The one you linked to even says it is aluminium combustion chamber so I'm still at a loss as to how it rusted through ?
The one you link is a portable unit. I would assume nearly everyone here fits a non portable type to their boats which are plastic cased and aluminium combustion Chambers.

Both steel and aluminium corrode in salty air, alas unless it's an expensive make the description just says metal and plastic.

"Marine diesel" has a low sulphur content and no bio. Mdl advertise the fact that they sell only proper marine diesel.
I discovered 3 categories for red diesel, two start with EN and one with BS. The bs is real marine diesel, containing no bio and a small amount of sulphur.
The en,s contain up to 4% and up to 7.5% bio (at the time of reading). Both can also be sold as marine diesel though

From rpm fuels Web site
"White diesel is the ultra-low sulphur diesel typically used for road-going vehicles. White diesel also contains a higher concentration of cetane than red diesel."

You want the Bio, BUT check to see if it lists recycled vegetable oil or Rapeseed, as they are lubricity killers. Perfectly OK in a tractor but not in any sort of modern diesel.

 

[Bigplumbs]

The case may be steel but the combustion chamber is aluminium as its a great conductor of heat. Steel would be hopeless in comparison. Think of an air cooled motorbike engine ? The one you linked to even says it is aluminium combustion chamber so I'm still at a loss as to how it rusted through ?
The one you link is a portable unit. I would assume nearly everyone here fits a non portable type to their boats which are plastic cased and aluminium combustion Chambers.

The portable one is exactly the same as the other one it is just in a metal box/case and more compact