dgadee
Well-known member
Sounds more like a recipe for dumped boats to me.
Cheap boats. The end is nigh, The Cheap Boat Thread
- Thread starter doug748
- Start date
Sounds more like a recipe for dumped boats to me.
PHN
Member
We seem to forget that boats - just like cars - are expendable products that write off and get replaced at some moment in time. Nothing new.
dgadee
Well-known member
I thought we were moving into the green era? Expendability is no longer fashionable. Ask Greta.
PHN
Member
Expendable is not the problem as long as there is a recycle program.
V1701
Well-known member
The thing with old plastic boats though is assuming the hull itself is sound they just need somebody who wants to carry on using it enough to show them some love. I have a 1969 Bowman 26 that has a sweet little Beta 10hp with 400 odd hours, good sails, standing rigging about 8 years old with sta-lock fittings, renewed bunk cushions, newish mast, windvane steering gear, tiller pilot.. Still needs some work, rewiring, rebedding deck fittings, e.g. but I can do that. I bought her for about the cost of the replacement engine/ancillaries or less than what it would cost to berth her in some south coast marinas. I spent a lot of time and effort finding an older boat that had been maintained and updated really well whereas most of them are very manky by now with old sails & rigging, original decrepit engine or an outboard stuck on the back, nasty plastic covered bunk cushions, etc, etc. it's no wonder nobody wants them.
RupertW
Well-known member
That would be fine if you got £50 to scrap them but it’s the opposite- you are giving away a huge costly liability.
dgadee
Well-known member
obmij
Active member
I kept my Centaur for 5 years and sold her for half the price I paid. She was in better nick when I sold her than when a bought her by some distance (although by no means perfect)
I reckon that during the 5 years I averaged around £2000 p.a running costs i.e mooring & maintenance but excluding travel to the boat & provisioning / fuel for the boat. To be honest I never actually added anything up so that number is probably conservative.
Anyway, compared to the running costs the amount 'lost' through falling values was insignificant - and all told, deprecation, running costs etc was money very well spent.
In pretty much any other hobby, you buy something, use it, and when it is time to trade up, down or exit no-one expects to recover anything like the price paid, yet depreciation seems to be a perennial source of surprise in the sailing world!
I reckon that during the 5 years I averaged around £2000 p.a running costs i.e mooring & maintenance but excluding travel to the boat & provisioning / fuel for the boat. To be honest I never actually added anything up so that number is probably conservative.
Anyway, compared to the running costs the amount 'lost' through falling values was insignificant - and all told, deprecation, running costs etc was money very well spent.
In pretty much any other hobby, you buy something, use it, and when it is time to trade up, down or exit no-one expects to recover anything like the price paid, yet depreciation seems to be a perennial source of surprise in the sailing world!
jac
Well-known member
I think it's fairly new in the sailing world. Historically ( i suspect until about 10-15 years ago) boats would resell for more than purchase price ( not necessarily after adjusting for inflation) and definitely not after adjusting for maintenance / upgrades / replacement etc. SO buy a typical £20k boat, enjoy for 5 years, sell for £22k. Now if you got £15k you would probably be pleased.
doug748
Well-known member
Not an obvious bargain at first glance but not long ago these were changing hands for up to 14k. Says the engine has been looked at, new upholstery, plus full set of newish sails and furler. Pricey items:
Jeremy Rogers - Contessa 26 1968 in Essex, Eastern | Boats and Outboards
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Jeremy Rogers - Contessa 26 1968 in Essex, Eastern | Boats and Outboards
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PHN
Member
1 minute google reveals below mentiond companies. Don't know them. They are probably not the only ones.
Boat Breakers
Boat Salvage
dgadee
Well-known member
That's not a program, just a couple of firms who want paid to scrap your boat. Which supports my comment that this is a recipe for dumped boats. Any boatyard has them lying about in the corner - left lying because costs got too much. Do you seriously think the people who abandon boats are going to pay to get these boats disposed of?
obmij
Active member
The solution is simple.
The owner, if known, remains responsible for the storage or disposal of the vessel at all times. I'm pretty sure this is covered by existing environmental legislation and if not, legislation could be easily tweaked.
If the owner is not known then local authorities would be obliged to dispose of the vessel. This would be an incentive for local authorities to trace and pursue what are basically flytippers.
Fines, in addition to the cost of disposal would further discourage the practice.
The owner, if known, remains responsible for the storage or disposal of the vessel at all times. I'm pretty sure this is covered by existing environmental legislation and if not, legislation could be easily tweaked.
If the owner is not known then local authorities would be obliged to dispose of the vessel. This would be an incentive for local authorities to trace and pursue what are basically flytippers.
Fines, in addition to the cost of disposal would further discourage the practice.
dgadee
Well-known member
But you are just stating what the situation is at present. And it's not working. Why would it work in future?
Getting a county court (or small claims) judgment in your favour is the easy bit. Getting the money off whoever is the difficult bit. And you are just adding to your costs by seeking an enforcement order which may never be successfully implemented. You may be last in line to get money off the individual.
If that's your program, I am not very impressed.
PHN
Member
Isn't this the same as for cars? You simply cannot abandon a car in the street if you don't want it anymore. You as the owner have the obligation to bring it to a junk yard.
As an owner you have the obligation to dispose of "waste" - whatever it is - in a proper manner. Boatyards need to know who there customers are and act upon that if needed. To a certain extent simply abandoning a boat is comparable to illegaly dumping waste on someone else's property.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
It works in Liverpool.
Motor_Sailor
Well-known member
Yes your legal obligations are the same. The difference is, most of the time a scrapyard will take your car and even give you some money for it.
But with boats, you have to pay the scrapper. Even disposing of a 25ft sailing boat will cost the owner £500 at least. And tracing ownership is not easy. Many older boats that never go abroad aren't even on the SSR and some 'change hands' on eBay a number of times before being abandoned.
The problem of eBay sales of unwanted boats is so serious, that harbour masters in places like Salcombe (IIRC) are saying that the last registered owner remains responsible for the costs incurred by their old boat for up to six months after they can prove they sold it. I don't know if someone has tried challenging that in court.
obmij
Active member
Fly tipping is a criminal offence.
Abandoning a vehicle is a criminal offence.
If enforced, the current regulations are more than sufficient. As more vessels come the end of useful life stage I imagine local authorities will become more proactive in tracing former owners and enforcing the law.
Some people may get away with dumping boats just as some people get away with illegally flytipping rubbish - however it is much easier to trace vessel ownership than a load of old shyte dumped in a layby.
I doubt - 'sold it to a man in a pub and don;t have his details' will be much of a defence.
PHN
Member
Even with the license plates removed the VIN will identify the vehicle and hence the owner. And when you stop paying insurance, tax, etc. What do you tell the government? That it vanished in thin air? And you get away with it?
dgadee
Well-known member
Tee hee. You just take the plates off the body and engine if that's your goal. Or burn it out. Scrapyards now will only take legit vehicles, so sometimes you [not me or you, I hope] have got to act illegally.
You must be very law abiding, I fear.
Edit: friend bought a van for living in when kayaking and when he tried to scrap it the scrapyard said it had been put together with so many different parts that the log book and the vehicle were in two separate and parallel universes. Caused him all kinds of hassle to get shot of it.