Chartering looks bleak

Chartering. Does not appear to be a valid business idea for anyone other than the agent.
I looked into the possibility of chartering as a means of affording a nice boat. I checked out the usual suspects, Moorings, Sunsail and some local operators.
For the agent it appears to be an excellent business model.
Find some Dreamer to take on the Capital cost, Mooring, Insurance, Maintenance, and Risk.
(Actually the big ones will guarantee income and take on maintenance, but you still make a loss) and be stuck with it at end of term. He will never break even but convince him it is a good idea and will reduce the cost of ownership..
The broker or agent pockets 40 or 50 percent and makes a profit having low overhead, low capital cost,
Just has to cover advertising, some staff in an office, some staff on the dock to meet and greet.

The arrangement obviously works for many people as these operations appear to be all over now
I have taken advantage of some of my local ones over the years and chartered.. Perhaps one day I might head for BVI and charter..

There are some business models for chartering which are successful. Even in short season cold wet northern climates.
Id be interested in hearing about those.
 
lustyd said:
Just to clarify, the IR changed the rules to stop people fraudulently claiming parts for "charter boats" which were in actual fact private boats with charter adverts on the internet. I suspect that if your boat still genuinely gets used enough to be a genuine charter boat which is run as a business then taxation will be easier. In order to do this, discounting would help because the boat would be used more often and therefore look much less like a tax dodge.
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Discounting would not help. It never helps if its real as opposed to a pretend price ( DFS!) in the first place.

No competent businessman competes in a race to the bottom any more than a competent businessman gets involved in intermediaries like LateSail. If you want to make money you operate like BMW or Harley or Chanel - you buiild a brand image that isolates you from the cheap trash at the bottom of the market, the businesses that have to discount through outfits like LateSail just to get by.
 
On the flip side of offering your boat for charter to be able to afford a nice one. I wonder if it's cheaper to actually just charter someone else's nice boat without all the associated hassles!! Depends how much you sail I suppose, depends how much you like toys :D.
 
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It is cheaper to Charter.
I used to Charter at least once a year some times to or three times. It’s cheaper than the moorage. I still always dreamt of my own boat.
Charter boats were never just right. I always felt I had paid a lot to sail so I had to make the most of it by sailing so I never just hung about somewhere.
If I had a boat for a week I could only go 3 or 4 days away. In the end I didn't by a boat. I became an instructor and was paid to sail. Never could convince my wife I was working. Eventually I bought a small boat for about the cost of a week’s charter. It was old and small and basic. But it was mine and my kids and I enjoyed it.
I just spent my savings on a nice boat. Its similar to one I chartered 20 years ago. To somebody else its probably old manky and cheep.

I would advise any one to start by chartering several times on different types of boat old and AWB. Get some experience
 
If it's about cost, ownership will never add up (unless you're perhaps able to sail for 6-8 weeks in the peak season plus numerous weekends and have a reasonable cost mooring. A 40 footer in hamble point used for 2 weeks plus a couple of weekends will cost probably a £1000 a day used!!!

To me chartering just doesn't feel right. You never really know the boat, there will be simple things that are wrong for you that can be easily fixed (shortage of decent fendersbetc) and you're constrained by when you can use.

At the risk of being selfish, fewer boats being chartered should free up berths and put downward pressure on costs.
 
jac said:
At the risk of being selfish, fewer boats being chartered should free up berths and put downward pressure on costs.
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Think again - more boats being chartered instead of being owned will free up berths!! At Hamble pOint with the discounted paid early berth costing me £11,000 I would welcome more empty berths reducing charges!!
 
Sailfree said:
Think again - more boats being chartered instead of being owned will free up berths!! At Hamble pOint with the discounted paid early berth costing me £11,000 I would welcome more empty berths reducing charges!!
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So how would MORE boats in charter lead to empty berths?? Surely there would be more demand.

My point was that if chartering is looking bleak then less money will be made by boat owners, whether that is profit or just contribution to running costs.

With less money coming in, some may have to exit, either from chartering which then means they don't have to code the boat and can go even onto a cheap swinger somewhere, or even exit from boat ownership. Hence the being selfish bit. Some people who currently can only run the boat/ mooring with the assistance of charter income won't be able to afford their boats.

Can't see that the people who are presently refusing to charter as much as they used to will suddenly buy a boat.
 
I did not say more boats in charter I said more boats being chartered meaning more bookings for the existing charter boats sorry if that was not clear.

Doug, who used to run Hamble Point Yacht Charters, always adovocated that in tough economic times people could no longer afford their boats and sold them accepting that they would just charter 1 or 2 times a year to get their sailing fix.. His thinking was the reduction in private ownership of boats was never matched by an increase in charter boats just that the charter boats got more bookings. I think corporate charters are down but otherwise the charter market for well maintained boats is holding up. A bigger factor is weather. Rain for a few months depresses booking and there is an instant increase in booking after a couple of good sunny spring weekends.

Certainly the opposite is true in boom times many more buy a boat and need a berth.


simple see!
 
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That does make sense!

But don't think that the two are mutually exclusive. If times are hard, those that might charter 3 or 4 times a year may reduce that to 1 or 2. Those that can't afford there own boat might start chartering to get their fix. What that means for chartering depends on the balance between the 2.
 
jac said:
That does make sense!

But don't think that the two are mutually exclusive. If times are hard, those that might charter 3 or 4 times a year may reduce that to 1 or 2. Those that can't afford there own boat might start chartering to get their fix. What that means for chartering depends on the balance between the 2.
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I used to own a 38' Dufour 8 berth max that i sold to buy the currenr boat. It is a better saliling boat compared to the 38' Bavarias and got chartered bt keen sailors throughout the year. It was being worked hard. I decided to go for a larger 43' Deck Saloon and target more the corporate market. The 38' is still on the fleet 11yrs later and still chartering well - my 43' has definately been hit by the economy but still a number of individuals or groups charter it.

At one time the business owners would have suggested after about 5yrs that we considered buying new boats but not in current market. I got a "limited" tax investigation in 2005. it covered 3yrs and cost me £10.000 in the end as boat was deemed an "asset for hire" not a service as it only went out with a professional skipper 34% of the time. This decision removed any chance of making a profit. Had i not already bought a new boat and got it coded frankly i would never have bought it. I recently got a letter from the charter company warning of the way the iR loook at charter owners - too late i had beeen investigated about 5yrs before but obviously a number of other owners have now been subjected to the the iR's gaze!

The charter company have had no new boats for IIRC about the last 5yrs and I will not replace mine. i am sure a few manage to "fiddle" their accounts but i suspect their days are numbered and at current charter rates the iR treatment will kill the UK charter market.

As for my business decisions - whatever I do or recommend - do the opposite!!
 
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AMCD300 said:
Oh look - an unsolicited attack on Bavarias... :rolleyes:
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No both great boats and better value for money than the two 36' & 38' Dufours I bought but in mixed fleets the one that arranged the group booking always chose the Dufour. Boats were equivalent but I paid the extra for the slightly better sailing qualities of the dufours. I am talking about circa 2000 vintage boats can't comment on current production.
 
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