Chart plotters V laptops with appropriate software

[Becky]

We are in the process of sorting out our instrumentation, and have now fitted most of the sailing ones, but now we have to consider the GPS. I like chart plotters, whether on a laptop, or dedicated like a Garmin. In fact I had a Garmin 182, as well as my trusty Garmin 12 on my previous boat, and they were similar enough to be easy to switch from one to another. But I also have a nice new laptop which would also display charts. My Partner has lent me his teaching software, Seapro, and Tsunami being the two examples he has. The latter seems pretty good, but not as easy as the Garmin- of course it isn't linked to a satellite, so doesn't know where it is. What is the current thinking on these things? I have had lots of conflicting advice from the swindleries, depending on which make they have most of in stock, I suspect. What are people using, and how well does it perform? Also is it easy to keep your laptops working at sea?

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[jerryat]

Hi Becky,

Can't comment on chart plotters and the like as I only use the paper variety - much prefer them! Re the use of laptops on board, these are now commonplace and very tolerant of what is generally considered a hostile environment. A sensible stowage place away from the risk of a direct dollop of the briny, preferably in a case and you should have no problems.

My own Dell Inspiron has spent most of the last seven years years on board (and 1000's of miles) and has never (Oh Lord, watch it pack up now!) broken down. I use it for all the usual things such as wefaxes, rtty and tidal progs etc, and store email stuff onto a floppy for use ashore in the internet cafes.

I think they're fantastic bits of kit but, as I say, can't advise on the relative merits of dedicated plotters versus laptop.

Hope this helps a bit.

Good sailing!

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[Talbot]

I looked long and hard at this and decided that what I wanted initially was a plotter that I could see from my helm position. I frequently go out on my own, and this gives me a lot more confidence when there is a lot of traffic about. It also only uses a small amount of power, is securely fixed and is waterproof.

The laptop comes into its own much more when passage planning and as a means of transferring waypoints to the plotter. If I didnt have an enormous wish list of other things with a higher priority, then I would also want the laptop, but the plotter (a Navman 5500) gives me 95% of what I want.

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[SimonJ]

I have been using a Dell for three years for navigation and other functions. Occasionally like all computers it crashes - bad news and unpredictable. Plus side is that if you are patient there are "odd bits of appropriate soft ware" out there which somehow become available that enable one to operate chart systems! Whether you feel you could/would utilise such systems I do not know - I am certain nevertheless that many cruisers do.
With a much more reliable and robust plotter you always need expensive charts which as far as I am aware do not exist in pirated versions in other words there is no choice but to pay a lot of money for each electronic portfolio which cannot I understand be linked with you computer.
Other issues. Laptops use quite a lot of electricity so you will not want to use full time (unless you have lots of generating capacity, big batteries and you fitted an efficient fridge!). Plotters are quite greedy too. You also need to decide which system to go for whichever you choose, the problem is for example Cmap is good in some areas and scanned BSB charts are better in others. eg South Portugal cmap works well but scanned Admiralty charts are more dated and poorer scale. Cmap also takes up far less disc space.
I do not know where you are going but if it is the Caribbean you could do as I was advised mysteriously to do and that is wait until you get to the Canaries and pick up your paper charts there! It will all become clear when you get there ....
Hope this helps, Simon


<hr width=100% size=1>SimonJ

 

[roly_voya]

You can get an RS232 link to conect between GPS and laptop which is a normal part of setting up computer based chart systems and works well. I use a Garmin 12 and Autoroute Express in the car - works brilliantly. Looked at using it on the boat but the cost or charts and vunerability decided me againts it, I dont see the point as you have to have the paper charts as a backup so electronics are simple dupication.

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[Mollari]

I say none of it is any good, that's what husband is for

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[Robin]

Hi Becky

This one has been much discussed so a search will help, there are two very distinct supporter's clubs involved.

I carry a laptop for weather fax, RTTY and passage planning. I can load C-Map cartridges and plan routes on the laptop then download them back via a C-Map blank cartridge to either of two dedicated plotters. The laptop is not connected to a GPS and is not used continuously under way but packed safely away in a carry case.

For long passages you have to consider the power consumption, the laptop is measured in amps and the plotter in milliamps, both add up quickly when multiplied by 24 hours of continuous running but the plotter wins by a long way.

Laptops are fairly reliable nowadays but they do still crash/freeze (and wouldn't that be just at a critical time) plus they are not waterproof. Picture the potential for problems if you are dripping salt water from your oilies over the laptop every time you want to check something. Both our plotters are waterproof, one (submersible waterproof standard) is cockpit mounted in full view at all times and contains it's own built in WAAS/EGNOS (satellite differential) GPS, it is kept as a complete stand alone from the other plotter which is fully integrated with the instruments and autopilot. Much better in my view to have the plotter in view outside in the cockpit.

Whichever route you go though, pick the chart system first and chose wisely. My choice is C-Map but it is very much a personal choice. I would personally stay well clear of any in-house chart system that would only work with one make, there is another post about this which refers to Garmin pulling the plug on G-charts which were Navionics based but only useable on Garmin, rendering older Garmin plotters obsolete overnight. Had those Garmin sets used the Navionics charts on Navionics cartridges the plotters would still be useable. Now Garmin are offering Bluechart, another Garmin only system, how long before this is withdrawn and replaced with another? C-Map are useable on many different makes of plotter and on PC programs, C-Map have been very responsible as all new developments have been backwards compatible a very good selling point IMO.

Finally don't forget the Yeoman plotter which will use any paper chart, this is an excellent and very affordable piece of kit and it's power useage is tiny.

Robin

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[temptress]

HI,

We have a chartplotter at the NAV station and had a repeater in the cockpit. This was great but the repeater is now dead and so have been considering our options as the chartplotter, navtex need updating.

Having sailed on other boats with other plotters and laptops we have devided to go for the laptop option.

As said elsewhere here the choice of chart is very important as they still cost money and I would not be happy using a say GARMIN specific chart system. we currently use C-map and will continue to use these in our new system (probably a DELL laptop with RAYMARINE software) as we have a considerable investment in the charts already.

Also when our cartridges needed updating we were able to 'trade in' our old ones for a discount on the new ones.

Whatever system you use you STILL NEED PAPER CHARTS. We carry and plot on these and ALWAYS log our lat/long, spd, crs etc... in a PAPER BASED fromat. As well as giving you something to do this is important as despite all my best efforts we had a total power failure on passage a few years ago but the paper info allowed us to carry on without any stress.



<hr width=100% size=1>Temptress of Down
Southsea Marina
Hants
UK

 

[DogStar]

Re: Chart plotters V laptops with appropriate soft

I don't have vast experience, but I hired a friend who drives tugs and ferries to come with me from Cowes to Shoreham in an old Pinnace. I had fitted a Lowrance GPS chartsounder, but Neil brought his laptop with all the charts he uses for work. Well on his nice dry bridge it might be fine, but in my damp old wheelhouse on a foggy night it threw a wobbly (actually looks like a shorted motherboard) and wouldn't even start up. We ended up finding Shorehams outer piers looming out of the fog solely with recourse to the Lowrance. Great bit of kit. I wouldn't dream of relying on a laptop in the same way!

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[BigART]

"Finally don't forget the Yeoman plotter which will use any paper chart, this is an excellent and very affordable piece of kit and it's power useage is tiny. "

I can fully support this, Yeoman plotters are an excellent tool, and personally, I have made the decision to stick with paper charts and a Yeoman. The system is plugged into a GPS in the cockpit to display the required information. This eliminates the requirement to regularly update the electric maps in addition the the paper chart corrections which you would, of course, need to carry anyway.
It is easy to plot your present position, plot waypoints. mark tracks over long distances, and other useful tricks with bearings and distances. And come the big lightning strike, it still works, sort of...


<hr width=100% size=1>I could well be wrong, if so I apologise - please correct me.

 

[Becky]

Thank you all for your experience and advice. I hadn't realised that there is a hidden problem with Garmin changing their chart source, must admit that I have an old Garmin 200 Map which now doesn't have readily available charts. But rest assured, everything is written on to a paper chart. As to leaving all this to husbands, well, I want to be able to get home alone if my partner falls overboard.
Regards Becky

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[pandroid]

I can load C-Map cartridges and plan routes on the laptop then download them back via a C-Map blank cartridge to either of two dedicated plotters

How do you do that then?

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[jerryat]

Hi Simon!

Yep! Been there, done it! You can also get all the charts you need (in the manner you infer!) in Gibraltar, which is where we 'topped up' our portfolio before our Pond circuits. I haven't had a problem with power requirements for the laptop (or anything else, yet!) but have a 300amp domestic and 100amp battery set-up, along with solar panels, Adverc, Aqua4gen, Rutland 913 and back up kawasaki generator. That lot often gives us a surplus so we have to turn on a couple of interior lights or turn off some of the kit.

Yes I've thought about electronic charts etc, but can't seem to get enthusiastic about them I'm afraid. I'll possibly change in a few years time, but as I would never sail without full paper chart cover, really can't see the point, although I readily concede Talbot's point re the single-handing, presumably in confined waters.

I single-hand a lot, but mostly on long passages where nipping down to the chart table is much less of a problem.

As usual it's everyone to his own - and long may it continue!

Good sailing!



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[Robin]

You need PC-Planner NT+ from C-Map, which is a cartridge reader (USB or Serial) that plugs into the PC or laptop and comes with suitable software to work it. Assuming you already have WPTs and Routes in your plotter, you 'save' these to a C-Map User cartridge, load this into the cartridge reader of PC-Planner and you now have it all available on your PC/laptop. You can then load C-Map chart cartridges as required into PC-Planner's reader and do what you want, create new WPTs, modify existing ones, create new routes etc. When you are ready then download it all onto your User cartridge, put the User Cartridge back in the plotter and 'Save' it all into the plotter files (It will therefore overwrite everything there), so now you have the same data on both PC and plotter. If like us you have 2 plotters, load the User cartridge into plotter 2 and repeat the download.

Be aware that there are 2 different sizes of User cartridge, depending on your make of plotter. In our case we have one of each, PC-Planner reads/downloads to either but each plotter needs the correct one. For us to load the same data from plotter 1 to plotter 2, we download to User Cartridge 1, load that into PC-Planner, then download it to User cartridge 2, put this into plotter 2 and 'save' it to that, now both are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Easy isn't it!

PC-Planner will also allow you to print charts as they appear on the screen (in colour) and to create, save and print out your WPT list, Route List etc. It also contains a very detailed zoomable world map, it even shows the channels and buoys off Basra! (Not for navigation of course, but interesting nonetheless).


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[pandroid]

OK, I've got all that. I thought you meant you had the charts on the PC and could copy them to the cartridge, not just the waypoints. (i.e Have them in two places at once)

I dont know about you, but I find PcPlanner unstable. Its also a pretty tacky interface compared to something like Navmaster.

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[Robin]

No problem with PC-Planner at all. I think there are software updates though on their website?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://pcplannernt.c-map.it/default_en.asp>http://pcplannernt.c-map.it/default_en.asp</A>



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[pandroid]

Yeah, got all that stuff, still rubbish. Seems to lock up on the USB port occasionally or flake out if you do stuff too quickly.

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[cameocrew]

My setup consists of Garman 128 ( dismountable in cockpit) connected to Toshiba
laptop on chart table. The Laptop is a 500Mhz /40gig/128ram dvd with 13" screen
running Win ME with Maptec charting. I carry garman handheld as backup (PC connectable) and print paper charts direct from from PC before venturing out
(I run dual plot on anything other than day trips). I have run this set-up for 3years without any problems. I carry spare battery/Hard disk drive (with complete software mirror setup)/screen/keyboard for laptop (cheap from ebay) I run the laptop off ships battery supply tru stepup tranny (RS SUPPLY) . The laptop consumes very little
power once its internal battery charges up and is not being used as the ships
MP3 duke box / movie player/mobile phone/TV./Photo processor. and the wind/solar gennys easily keep pace. I disconnect the laptop from the ships supply
when engine starting or buggering around with batterys or electrical system.
The maptec charting is low end stuff but is very adequate and user friendly
(Im in w.Med area) and despite v.high ambient temps and the odd drop of 'Tinto'
being spilt on the laptop have suffered no system losses to date.
I am thinking about getting another laptop with a bigger screen and dvd/cdrw
to take the' recreactional load' off the present system.





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[Ric]

There's a few variables involved in your decision that you haven't revealed, like your budget and the electricity balance on your boat.

But if I had the budget (both cash and coulombs) on a boat I would get a laptop (or better a marinised one) for down below at the chart table, running Raymarine software, linked to a Raymarine chartplotter at the helm. You would then have the sophistication of the computer out of harms way down below to do your nav, then beam up the route to the relatively robust chartplotter outside. With the Raymarine setup, both your laptop and the chartplotter can double as radar display and even bottom-sounder display.

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[Oldhand]

Becky, I have been using PC based chartplotting for nearly 3 years but rather than a laptop use a tiny "cappuccino" PC with a 15" TFT screen biultin to the Nav station and a combined IR keyboard mouse. For power consumption reasons I have slowest processor I could get (800Mhz) and use Windows 98SE and have no reliability problems at all. The PC is powered from an efficient 12/18v DC-DC converter and when quietly chartplotting with the screen "asleep" it draws 2.5A. With the screen active this jumps up to 4.5A.

I use MaxSea with Maptech (scanned admiralty charts) for the UK and Mapmedia (scanned French SHOM charts) for France. I prefer my charts to be direct copies of the "national" standard 'cause a) very small chance of errors and b) look identical to the paper charts.

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