channel crossing

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shanegoodhand

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After numerous delays electrical, mechanical & phsycological we finally arrived in Dover yesterday ready for our hop to Calais and entry to the canal system. With respect to the voluntary seperation scheme by ferries between the edges of the TSS here, I was hoping for some advice. Do we sail within the VSS heading at ninety degrees to the TSS (as normal) or do we keep our course to compensate for tide & make sure we stay within the VSS. Sorry if this is really basic but we're quite new to this and after spending the last 30M yesterday in thick fog I would like the next bit to be slightly less stressful. Any other advice would be welcome.

www.janixlogblog.blogspot.com
 
heading should be 90 deg to tss, not compensated for tide. I found it bit stressy first time across but as with most things not as bad as you think after you get there. I once got very confused trying to predict heading of tankers anchored off Calais.
Good restuarant in main square of calais "le coq d'or" or something like that.
Good luck on your journey to the lands of the euro, fine markets and cheap wine.
 
Do the usual recommended actions -

take a bearing on the ship at intervals to check for collision risk.

If the bearing stays constant and collision looks possible, don't worry about altering course to go astern of the ships. Make it clear you have seen them by a substantial alteration of course.

You have to get in reasonably close, there will be another one along in a few mnutes!
 
Thanks for the help. I did realise that normally it's your heading which is the rule rather than cog, but it seemed like a good idea to be within the VSS and cut out a good proportion of the collision risks from ferries between Dover, Calais, and Dunkirk leaving mostly traffic using the TSS to avoid. I'll still go this route, keeping the heading at 90' but plan the tides as to stay within the 1m wide VSS - unless anyone recomends something better??

www.janixlogblog.blogspot.com
 
Explain 'VSS' this is new to me. The ferries are very manouverable and not really a problem to yachts except in fog, though they sometimes do come close.

If you leave Dover Eastern entrance, close South Foreland and then out to South Goodwin before starting to cross, you will be roughly at right-angles to the TSS and well away from the ferries.

Remember when you cross the first TSS lane you will be the "stand-on" vessel with regard to ships coming down the channel. Most will give way but a few don't. Needs care! In the second lane you will be treated as the "give-way" vessel even if you are sailing.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Remember when you cross the first TSS lane you will be the "stand-on" vessel with regard to ships coming down the channel. Most will give way but a few don't. Needs care! In the second lane you will be treated as the "give-way" vessel even if you are sailing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Er, I don't think so...

2.8) Rule 10(j) - Vessels of less than 20 metres in length and sailing vessels shall not impede traffic following a traffic lane ....

W.
 
Not a wonderful plan for Calais it will bring you in across the shallows, better to leave Dover via the western entrance then cross straight to the Abbeville buoy, you will be west of the VSS away from ferries except Speed One and will arrive on the french coast at the begining of the deep water approach to Calais the inside the shallows. Follow the beach east to Calais easy!

Calais port control is VHF Ch 17 - you will get better service if a female makes the call! (this has been proved beyond doubt over many years, I call it good use of crew (ducks as swmbo throws a knife!))

Have a good trip
 
[ QUOTE ]

Er, I don't think so...

2.8) Rule 10(j) - Vessels of less than 20 metres in length and sailing vessels shall not impede traffic following a traffic lane ....

W.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'll find it is "shall not impede the safe passage of a power driven vessel following the traffic lane" which is possibly slightly different.

I asked the Coastguard chappie at SIBS last year about this and he was of the opinion that it still required the power driven vessel to give way if he had sea room to do so.

The TSS rules seem particularly badly worded to me. The rule that comes close to defining "shall not impede the safe passage" actually groups it with "shall not impede the passage". If they are defined together then why have two separate phrases?

Trying to find a definitive answer to the question of who is stand on vessel in the TSS, I found this on the IMO site: "In 1987 the regulations were again amended. It was stressed that Rule 10 applies to traffic separation schemes adopted by the Organization (IMO) and does not relieve any vessel of her obligation under any other rule." which appears to support the view that the other collision rules still apply, i.e. sail is still stand on in the TSS.
 
You can argue about IRPCS wording forever ...

... but what I am describing is what actually happens out there. This is how the majority of ships will behave. This from perhaps a hundred crossings of the Dover Straight in a yacht.
 
I take this "impede" stuff to mean; not continue and cause the rules to be invoked. However, if you end up in a situation then the rules still apply as a way out of trouble.

So engine failure, stupidity or MOB etc. would mean the ships would miss you. But sailing straight across when in sight of a ship is not approved if that ship would need to take avoiding action.
 
Re: You can argue about IRPCS wording forever ...

...I know what happens - I work the area frequently. The difference between what happens and what should happen is what causes uncertainty and then accidents.

I accept my wording was a little off - my notes were all I had to hand, but I d stand by what I d meant.

Expecting a large vessel to alter course to avoid a small yacht/MB whilst navigating a TSS, especially in heavy traffic or where the course alteration brings the vessel into conflict with other vessels using the TSS or proximity to land, etc. (look how close the SW lane is to Dungeness Point for example) IS impedeing a safe passage.

The rythme above is one of the best I ve seen in a long time.

W.
 
Re: You can argue about IRPCS wording forever ...

The discussion between yourself and AndrewB highlights an ambiguity which is often discussed in the merchant marine.

On-coming traffic following a TSS has no way of knowing the length of a vessel crossing their lanes, and therefore whether or not they should expect that vessel 'not to impede safe passage'. Especially so if vessels are not in visual contact.

So all TSS traffic, if it detects a vessel crossing from starboard, and if there is a potential for collision, will alter course to remove that possibility. Except those who are asleep, of course . . . not likely in a TSS.
 
Re: You can argue about IRPCS wording forever ...

Thanks again for all your advice & views. As to your initial question Andrewb, the VSS is a roughly 1m wide voluntary seperation scheme set up between the Ferry companies (not the fast cat) across the TSS between Dover & Calais. The waypoints for which can be found on the RYA website. My original question came about due to someone telling me that they sailed straight down this VSS lane to avoid the ferry traffic. I couldn't see how it could be done with the tides in this area (not in my slow boat anyway) without sailing a COG to stay within the VSS rather than a heading at 90' to the TSS. Hope this makes sense?

www.Janixlogblog.blogspot.com
 
Re: You can argue about IRPCS wording forever ...

[ QUOTE ]

On-coming traffic following a TSS has no way of knowing the length of a vessel crossing their lanes, and therefore whether or not they should expect that vessel 'not to impede safe passage'. Especially so if vessels are not in visual contact.


[/ QUOTE ]

On that basis how do they know you're sailing and are the stand on vessel?

Radar returns - IF ANY(!) - are usually a good indication of size as is the compulsory carriage of AIS on vessels over 300 tonne.

W.
 
Re: You can argue about IRPCS wording forever ...

[ QUOTE ]
On that basis how do they know you're sailing and are the stand on vessel?

[/ QUOTE ] They don't necessarily know you're sailing. They will plan to alter course for all vessels coming from the starboard - sail is immaterial - because the vessel coming from starboard is the stand on vessel when two power vessels meet.

I wouldn't agree that radar returns are a reliable way of indicating size, some reflectors on small vessels give excellent returns, some aspects of larger vessels give poor returns. Certainly, there is no way for a merchant vessel to know reliably that a vessel is <20m, and therefore should not impede . . . so he always reacts with the universal solution - altering course to starboard (if there's sea room so to do).
 
Re: You can argue about IRPCS wording forever ...

[ QUOTE ]
They don't necessarily know you're sailing. They will plan to alter course for all vessels coming from the starboard - sail is immaterial - because the vessel coming from starboard is the stand on vessel when two power vessels meet

[/ QUOTE ]

I mentioned sailing as an earlier poster remarked on the part of the regs that do not absolve the vessels from the 'usual' regulations - eg power gives way to sail.

Having recently crossed in a 24 metre vessel, with operational AIS, and having called the giveway vessel numerous times on VHF channels 16, 13 and via DSC - all unanswered - I still had to alter my course, I wouldn't rely on the larger vessels following the TSS giving way.

W.
 
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