Channel crossing - ICC needed?

[Spirit of Glenans]

The RYA give it out to any holders of a Day Skipper ticket who ask (& pay if not members). They argue that DS more than covers the requirements. The ISA did the same last time I looked. Has that changed?

The requirements I've seen for the exam can hardly be described as 'focusing' on boat handling. Get off a pontoon, turn the boat and get back onto one.

The practice of the ISA and the RYA are identical in this matter, as it is all laid down by international maritime law. Valid instructors in Dinghy and Keelboat disciplines are also entitled to one, on application.
I did mine at Carlingford Sailing School, under the excellent tutelage of Ivan Slater, who, being a consummate professional, put us through a busy and educational training day, before assessing us thoroughly in theory and practice the following day.
There is a 10-year expiry date on the ICC and mine expires in two years time, but as I am now a (voluntary)keelboat instructor I will be able to renew without further testing.

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

I doubt it, but I can well believe they string the thing out to make more money.

Anyway, you've pretty much defeated your own argument re ICC Vs Coastal Skipper. The RYA DS is 5 days theory plus 5 days practical. The ISA DS is equivalent (5 day practical but theory is slightly different I believe). RYA Coastal Skipper is another 5 + 5 and that's assuming you mean the modern defn of Coastal Skipper without the independent exam. It's implausible that 20 days worth of training is in any way equivalent to 2 days worth.

Anyway, there's a pretty clear summary of what is expected on the ISA website.

http://www.sailing.ie/Portals/0/ICC/Guide to the ICC.pdf

I think you've misinterpreted what I said, which was that ICC is like a condensed version of DS, in that essentially you need to know your theory and be able to handle a boat.
I don't think two days could be regarded as stringing things out. The training day is in my opinion purely for familiarisation with a different boat, probably a different port, new crew-mates etc. I suppose if you had enough confidence you could just go along for the assessment without the training.
It could never be considered that one would do an ICC from a position of zero experience.Sailors who have many years of experience but who have never bothered to get a qualification may wish to charter a boat overseas and will require an ICC to do so. It's intended to show that a person has an internationally recognised minimum level of knowledge and skill to operate a small vessel without coming to grief. DS is probably on the same level with the addition of sailing skills.
I don't think 5 days theory in one block is a good idea, better to spread it over a few weeks of night classes, so as to absorb it better, do the homework, read background material etc. IMHO DS is a waste of time, better to go direct to CS
ISA DS, CS and YM standards are modelled on RYA practice, and last time I looked in my (RYA) Cruising Logbook, the requirement was, in general, to be able to sail a boat efficiently and safely, taking into account relevant syllabus items,in familiar waters, for DS, and in unfamiliar ones for CS and YM, with night navigation in the latter two. Taking formal theory classes is not required, but recommended, and for those who have completed a theory course there is a discount in the qualifying mileage requirement to encourage this. The main thing is to know the theory, how ever acquired. I think it takes a lot more than 20 days to really become a skipper
Incidentally RYA books, such as "Pass Your Coastal Skipper" are, or have been widely used in ISA theory courses. When I did mine we also used RYA training charts and questions, but ISA has since produced its own.

 

[duncan99210]

Just for clarity, the RYA will issue an ICC to folks holding either a Day Skipper, a Powerboat Level 2 (or higher levels of qualification) or an ICC assessment pass certificate. The ICC assessment is not an RYA qualification in itself, merely an assessment, conducted by a RYA school and demonstrating that the individual has the skills required of the ICC. You need no previous qualifications to attempt the assessment. It can be done in either a powerboat or sailing boat: the ICC has a provision on it stating what you are qualified to sail: power or sail or both and up to or over 10m power (no length limits given for sail).

 

[lpdsn]

I think you've misinterpreted what I said, which was that ICC is like a condensed version of DS, in that essentially you need to know your theory and be able to handle a boat.
I don't think two days could be regarded as stringing things out. The training day is in my opinion purely for familiarisation with a different boat, probably a different port, new crew-mates etc. I suppose if you had enough confidence you could just go along for the assessment without the training.
It could never be considered that one would do an ICC from a position of zero experience.Sailors who have many years of experience but who have never bothered to get a qualification may wish to charter a boat overseas and will require an ICC to do so. It's intended to show that a person has an internationally recognised minimum level of knowledge and skill to operate a small vessel without coming to grief. DS is probably on the same level with the addition of sailing skills.
I don't think 5 days theory in one block is a good idea, better to spread it over a few weeks of night classes, so as to absorb it better, do the homework, read background material etc. IMHO DS is a waste of time, better to go direct to CS
ISA DS, CS and YM standards are modelled on RYA practice, and last time I looked in my (RYA) Cruising Logbook, the requirement was, in general, to be able to sail a boat efficiently and safely, taking into account relevant syllabus items,in familiar waters, for DS, and in unfamiliar ones for CS and YM, with night navigation in the latter two. Taking formal theory classes is not required, but recommended, and for those who have completed a theory course there is a discount in the qualifying mileage requirement to encourage this. The main thing is to know the theory, how ever acquired. I think it takes a lot more than 20 days to really become a skipper
Incidentally RYA books, such as "Pass Your Coastal Skipper" are, or have been widely used in ISA theory courses. When I did mine we also used RYA training charts and questions, but ISA has since produced its own.

OK, let's agree to differ on our opinions of the ICC. IMHO, it is really at a very minimal level. Skippers with many years of experience should be able to rock up and pass the YM Coastal or YM Offshore.

And I still think two days is stringing it out. If you charter a boat you don't get a day's familiarisation training before taking it out of the marina or manouvering it. You might get a few tips & hints on it's handling characteristics then you're on your own.

 

[Uno]

Dont ask the RYA, they are self appointed, make money from issuing certificates and are biased .....
I have been in boats with some of the most highly qualified (on paper) people but never again !
Don't they say if you are **** at something ... teach it !
One of them even has a teaching certificate. god help us all !
Give me experience any day.

 

[LadyInBed]

Oh dear I may no longer be going to France by Ferry!

Your evidence is ?

Evidence for what, If you can travel by ferry?

I am not a party to the locked advice from the RYA for France has this changed recently?

No

Does this mean all those dinghy sailors that go to world championships etc now need an ICC?

No, the OP was asking about motor powered craft, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that electric powered motor craft launched in France are exempt.

This advice is suggesting that boat registration is a requirement trailed or sailed but not an ICC?

Correct.

Am I am off the hook here as I arrive by water not via the tunnel?

Are you defining 'arrived by water' as 'by Ferry' or 'navigating your boat over'?
Off the hook for what?

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

The RYA's syllabus is on the third page of this PDF: http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/cruising/Web Documents/Boating Abroad/ICC Form.pdf

Within that there's room for the level of rigour to vary a bit; my parents' experience on their day was that it was fairly lax and casual.

Pete

Yes, that looks like the ICC I did.

 

[LadyInBed]

Yes, that looks like the ICC I did.

My ICC is "Inland Waters" and "Sports Boat" as I got it on the back of the RYA Diver Cox qualification back in the 90's for when I went round the French canals (no CEVNI required then). When it expired I never bothered to renew it as I dont expect to traverse VNF waters again.