Channel crossing France-UK 1st time as skipper - advice please

[Tranona]

Lots of advice here to use Cherbourg, but that means coming round Cap de la Hague. I’ve never done it without being bounced around quite uncomfortably for a short time. I’m sure that OP (and I �&#56842 would appreciate the advice of the more experienced on how to avoid the worst of it.

Depends on the wind. If taking the north flowing tide (which is sensible) then a wind with anything north or east in it will kick up seas at the north end of the race. Get well north of the Cap before turning east.

 

[Daydream believer]

on my way back to Bradwell now single handed would suggest St port then Cherbourg so you get the race over easily. I will now go Le havre
dieppe. Boulogne Bradwell. May stop at ramsgate if I get tired
. all these ports are 24 hour ports in any weather and always have a space so I have done the trip many times
ports are cheap
I sail a day rest a day and
provided weather plays ball it is okay. if not there are things to do. but to each his own

 

[Hadenough]

Once you've got to Ramsgate, I would highly recommend this book to help you plan your passage across the Estuary to your Essex home.

http://www.crossingthethamesestuary.com/

If I were you I would borrow a copy first. All due respect to the author but it is totally Greek to me. In fact I have an out of date but unused copy if you want it for the postage.

 

[Daydream believer]

if the op can make it to ramsgate I hardly feel that crossing the Thames estuary can be that hard

 

[Birdseye]

You're british ( I assume). The boat was built in the UK. So what paperwork? Just do it.

As for the trip itself, its easy enough. Chose decent weather. Try to schedule it all for daylight and personally I wouldnt complicate things by calling in at the CI. Technically that would mean you have to get clearance on arrival in the UK and maybe even file a passage plan. I dont know anyone who bothers to do so but all the same.

THe key for me would be a thorough preparation of the boat itself to make sure all kit is good and sound, diesel free of the bug and the engine working OK etc etc. So I would plan on a couple of days toddling round the french ports or just day sailing from St Malo. Just to make sure you arent seeking help mid channel.

Its a milk run and more than likely you will be asking yourself afterwards what all the fuss was about.

 

[alant]

You're british ( I assume). The boat was built in the UK. So what paperwork? Just do it.

As for the trip itself, its easy enough. Chose decent weather. Try to schedule it all for daylight and personally I wouldnt complicate things by calling in at the CI. Technically that would mean you have to get clearance on arrival in the UK and maybe even file a passage plan. I dont know anyone who bothers to do so but all the same.

THe key for me would be a thorough preparation of the boat itself to make sure all kit is good and sound, diesel free of the bug and the engine working OK etc etc. So I would plan on a couple of days toddling round the french ports or just day sailing from St Malo. Just to make sure you arent seeking help mid channel.

Its a milk run and more than likely you will be asking yourself afterwards what all the fuss was about.

+1

With fast tides & many rocky bits to bump into, getting clear of the CI's asap should be a priority for anyone inexperience.

 

[zoidberg]

There's sound advice above, especially regarding better-advised routeing.

May I add a couple of thoughts? The first part of your passage - St Malo to somewhere north of the Cherbourg Peninsula - benefits, or suffers, from fast tides and areas of reefs and rocks. The wind strength/direction you experience will make a huge difference to your enjoyment or otherwise. It is likely that your experienced crew will be able to offer very helpful guidance in assessing.... and you'll already know something of the fast tide-streams in/across the approaches to St Malo.

The whole area is subject to sudden summer fogs, and while there are techniques for anticipating these, I firmly recommend you shape your courses to give you plenty of sea room well away from the areas of rocky reefs, such as in the vicinity of Les Iles Chausey, south and east of Jersey, Les Ecrehous - and especially north and west of Alderney. Having a few miles of space helps reduce the considerable worry of being unable to see the navigation beacons giving warning of places one should not go, and minor inaccuracies in navigation-plotting are not significant.

Use deliberately the powerful tide streams as conveyor belts.... provided the wind is generally in the same broad direction as the tide. Wind against tide should best be 'sat out'. By all means use the 10-mile wide passage between Alderney and Cap de la Hague. Go right through the middle. With wind and tide under you, that should be the fastest leg of the passage. I'd advise keeping well clear of The Swinge, for an error of timing or judgement around there could well be more than uncomfortable. Be aware of/plan to know alternative places you can duck into, should any leg not turn out as you'd hoped.... such as Shell Bay on the east side of Herm and the Anse de Saint Martin a few miles short of Cherbourg, just past Cap de la Hague.

You should have plenty of daylight and, dieu volente, good weather. You'll worry about a lot of stuff that turns out to be straightforward - but that's OK. It goes with the job. Just keep thinking ahead of the boat.

 

[alant]

There's sound advice above, especially regarding better-advised routeing.

May I add a couple of thoughts? The first part of your passage - St Malo to somewhere north of the Cherbourg Peninsula - benefits, or suffers, from fast tides and areas of reefs and rocks. The wind strength/direction you experience will make a huge difference to your enjoyment or otherwise. It is likely that your experienced crew will be able to offer very helpful guidance in assessing.... and you'll already know something of the fast tide-streams in/across the approaches to St Malo.

The whole area is subject to sudden summer fogs, and while there are techniques for anticipating these, I firmly recommend you shape your courses to give you plenty of sea room well away from the areas of rocky reefs, such as in the vicinity of Les Iles Chausey, south and east of Jersey, Les Ecrehous - and especially north and west of Alderney. Having a few miles of space helps reduce the considerable worry of being unable to see the navigation beacons giving warning of places one should not go, and minor inaccuracies in navigation-plotting are not significant.

Use deliberately the powerful tide streams as conveyor belts.... provided the wind is generally in the same broad direction as the tide. Wind against tide should best be 'sat out'. By all means use the 10-mile wide passage between Alderney and Cap de la Hague. Go right through the middle. With wind and tide under you, that should be the fastest leg of the passage. I'd advise keeping well clear of The Swinge, for an error of timing or judgement around there could well be more than uncomfortable. Be aware of/plan to know alternative places you can duck into, should any leg not turn out as you'd hoped.... such as Shell Bay on the east side of Herm and the Anse de Saint Martin a few miles short of Cherbourg, just past Cap de la Hague.

You should have plenty of daylight and, dieu volente, good weather. You'll worry about a lot of stuff that turns out to be straightforward - but that's OK. It goes with the job. Just keep thinking ahead of the boat.

The other point, is that unless the wind allows a vessel to sail faster than the tide, it will have little control & simply be a fast drift.
Off Alderney, the race can run at about 7knts, so even if tide is in your favour, it can still cause concern & loss of steerage.

 

[fergie_mac66]

Careful of the relationship between wind speed,fast tides and boat speed. The can combine very quickly and produce apparent wind speeds over the deck that can make a boat be very quickly overpressed.

Close hauled 20 knots of wind producing 7 kn boat speed through the water added together with 8 knots of tide can produce 35 knots over the deck . That force 8 over the deck!

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Hi having done this route numerous times, I would agree with Island 163. Go to Jersey St Helier first then Guernsey followed by Cherbourg. Access to these ports is straightforward and you can hole up in Cherbourg in comfort and choose your window for crossing the channel. What I would recommend for the Channel Islands is a tidal atlas. You have to “ride the tide” or you may find your boat going backwards. You will find the staff in the marinas in the CI knowledgeable about what time to start on the tide. When you have done this trip once it will do wonders for your confidence, get stuck in!

Yep, agree totally about ending up somewhere easy to get into. Far more important than the time it takes to get there when you've got a good crew on board. As skipper you should be thinking about making sure you have the right people fresh and on hand when you get to any tricky bits don't forget. That's means any pilotage in or out of port and crowded shipping lanes, tricky stretches of water, etc. Having said that an experienced will always always keep an out for the skipper, especially of he's openly looking to gain experience.

 

[LadyInBed]

You might find it a bit tight to do Jersey Alderney in one tide, but as has been said, Guernsey Cherbourg is a better option.
Go to my website and put the tide charts on your phone / tablet.
Have a good trip and tell us about it after.

 

[Topcat47]

If you don't mind not going ashore, Havre Gosselin on the west coast of Sark is a good place to overnight, there are visitors buoys and it's on the Great Russel. The Little Russel can be fraught with wind over tide if you were in Guernsey itself. The tides up there can be quite fierce and the rocks scary for a first timer.

 

[johnalison]

If you don't mind not going ashore, Havre Gosselin on the west coast of Sark is a good place to overnight, there are visitors buoys and it's on the Great Russel. The Little Russel can be fraught with wind over tide if you were in Guernsey itself. The tides up there can be quite fierce and the rocks scary for a first timer.

In decent weather the Little Russel is not unduly alarming for a yacht, and I have even known the odd ship to go that way. If you are worried, one way of coping is to set up a route on the plotter and use the X-track error to ensure that you are following the right course. An alternative, and one that I have used in Swedish archipelagos is as follows: There are thousands of rocks but only a very small number likely to cause trouble. Use a highlight pen and mark these rocks on the chart. They will be mostly drying rocks bordering your proposed route (in Sweden they will be rocks with <2m over them). You can safely sail roughly along your course so long as you don't go near your marked rocks, which might only number three or four.

 

[Tomaret]

Depends on the wind. If taking the north flowing tide (which is sensible) then a wind with anything north or east in it will kick up seas at the north end of the race. Get well north of the Cap before turning east.

Thanks - any thoughts on how far north? Two weeks ago in a lightish 28 footer we were slammed around all over the place 3 miles off. We are in Guernsey in our own boat (36’ Dehler) at the minute and will be heading back north in a week’s time so I have a particular interest in your thoughts.

 

[alant]

Thanks - any thoughts on how far north? Two weeks ago in a lightish 28 footer we were slammed around all over the place 3 miles off. We are in Guernsey in our own boat (36’ Dehler) at the minute and will be heading back north in a week’s time so I have a particular interest in your thoughts.

You'll have to check weather forecast, to make sure you don't get wind over tide conditions.
Obviously the tides are a set piece, its only the weather that changes, factoring in the greater help you get on a spring flood encountering the nastier wind over tide conditions if wind in wrong direction, against the easier but slower ebb flood conditions in same wind.

 

[Daydream believer]

People really are making this into a scary scenario. Just passage plan the tides. Route around any rocky areas leaving .5 miles mid route and head for st peter port and that is a days sail from st malo. The little russel is easy if you do not catch the tide too badly. If you do then turn the engine on. By breaking the journey like this you get day sails with S S & S plus breakfast every morning in comfort to set you up for the day
from st peter port one can time the alderney race easy enough to cherbourg and the tides will carry you all the way. Just pass through about mid way between alderney and c d h then turn east keeping an offing of 1.5 miles past c d h until you are well past. It gets a bit bouncy sometimes but it only lasts for an hour and a half. Really is not a problem if one does not do it in winds above about 20 kts. One can always motor..
Fog can catch one out anywhere but with modern gps one knows where one is and so long as one watches for ferries near st pp and the odd cruise ship they are not an issue. Especially if one keeps close to the west when arriving in the little russel from the south
cherbourg gives a stop off with lots of options and a place to leave the boat if you find weather turns foul for a week.

 

[alant]

People really are making this into a scary scenario. Just passage plan the tides. Route around any rocky areas leaving .5 miles mid route and head for st peter port and that is a days sail from st malo. The little russel is easy if you do not catch the tide too badly. If you do then turn the engine on. By breaking the journey like this you get day sails with S S & S plus breakfast every morning in comfort to set you up for the day
from st peter port one can time the alderney race easy enough to cherbourg and the tides will carry you all the way. Just pass through about mid way between alderney and c d h then turn east keeping an offing of 1.5 miles past c d h until you are well past. It gets a bit bouncy sometimes but it only lasts for an hour and a half. Really is not a problem if one does not do it in winds above about 20 kts. One can always motor..
Fog can catch one out anywhere but with modern gps one knows where one is and so long as one watches for ferries near st pp and the odd cruise ship they are not an issue. Especially if one keeps close to the west when arriving in the little russel from the south
cherbourg gives a stop off with lots of options and a place to leave the boat if you find weather turns foul for a week.

No-one is trying to make this a scary scenario, just offering commonsense advice to someone inexperienced in that area.
Relying on motor, should you not plan the tides in your favour, might find that you are bucking a tide which can be up to 7 knts in the Race, so a great way to go backwards. A stopping point mid way, could be Sark, much easier to navigate into an anchorage/pick up buoy, than Guernsey & easier to head north from on a favourable tide. Once clear of CdlH, Cherbourg is an easy stopover before heading east, 2 entrances just in case you miss one.

 

[Daydream believer]

No-one is trying to make this a scary scenario, just offering commonsense advice to someone inexperienced in that area.
Relying on motor, should you not plan the tides in your favour, might find that you are bucking a tide which can be up to 7 knts in the Race, so a great way to go backwards. A stopping point mid way, could be Sark, much easier to navigate into an anchorage/pick up buoy, than Guernsey & easier to head north from on a favourable tide. Once clear of CdlH, Cherbourg is an easy stopover before heading east, 2 entrances just in case you miss one.

I was not suggesting motoring through the race against the tide. I was siggesting using the engine if one thought one might be a bit late getting through the southern end of the little russel. I know it is perfectly dooable because i did it last week en route from roscoff to st pp. (co-incidentaly now in le havre on my way to essex) I also suggested cherbourg ,which you seem to have just repeated- glad you agree.

as for not making it scary!,, just read the posts. I have just spent a month cruising this area SH ----and now everyone has frightened me out of my wits. Thankfully i got out alive

 

[Tomaret]

You'll have to check weather forecast, to make sure you don't get wind over tide conditions.

That rather rules out going from Guernsey to Cherbourg in the next five days if the weather forecast of easterlies is to be believed. There must be an offing at which point wind over tide isn’t too much of a factor, but that may be so far north as to make it a very long trip. Looks like Alderney is the favoured staging post for the return trip to Portsmouth, possibly via Yarmouth.

 

[ScillyPuffin]

Thanks all for your help and advice. After reviewing things I've decided on Cherbourg-Bembridge as it's a daylight crossing and arrival with 3 hours spare tide at the other end. I did look at Cherbourg-Brighton, but I don't really fancy the 20+ hour crossing first time. Bembridge allows for other ports in the solent if plans change and we can run up the beach if no space on the pontoons.

After that its a case of hopping up the coast as and when as time off work is getting tight. Still, beats the long drive to west France. I may even be able to persuade the husband he wants to help out...

If I were you I would borrow a copy first. All due respect to the author but it is totally Greek to me. In fact I have an out of date but unused copy if you want it for the postage.

Hadenough, I may take you up on this offer since it'll be my new playground. If you PM me we can set up a paypal transfer.