Changing Helm station - method?

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mjf

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With the lovely calm conditions this w/e I tried the lower helm station for the run home.

I have been attempting to do this since I got the boat but frankly the visability and general awareness of the prevailing conditions is so good on the F/B that I felt much safer up there than conning from the lower helm at planing speeds with the view over the bow more restricted for spotting obstructions in the water etc.

Having got underway using the upper helm you really have to go NUC to switch over to the lower helm unless you (a) use the auto pilot or (b) leave a helmsman on the 'bridge' and swap over using intercom etc. This is fine in good Wx but how do you smoothly change stations when it's rough - the engines have to be put into neutral before the change over can occur.

Would appreciate more expeienced posters view on proceedure when switching in heavy Wx conditions as I would be a little reluctant to take my way off in a sea and rush off down below before setting off again.


Have to say though that I was hugly impressed by the lower helm position the vis was much better than expected, was quiet and very comfortable - going to try manouvering down here next.

One other thing that this highlighted - my furuno set up talks to each other for up/down loading waypoints - routes etc, but both are stand alone. This in practice means that both units need to be set up for the trip before the change over or you are faced with programming the lower helm ' on the run' which is sometimes not a good idea.

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If the furuno gear supports upload and download of points and routes etc. then dont you only have to program 1 and send the data to the other 1 - this could be done before leaving port? or if you have not got them actualy connected together, use a small hand held GPS to use as a transfer device?

also, do your furuno plotters have a user cartridge? (mine does not) if so then points can be moved by saving to cartridge and taking the cartridge to the other plotter?

I dont know about changing the FB controls - do the volvo (ewww) electronic control things allow you to do clever things at a touch of a button (doubt it)

Could be all volvo warranty??



<hr width=100% size=1>Thanks

Leyton

EXTAR Software - Software that works for you
Phone : 07803 139 736
 
dunno about furuno, but our raymarine kit sounds like it works the same way. You can create waypoints on either plotter, then share them over the network, and you can then build a route and share that.

But the route is only run if you tell the plotter to do so. So you select a route upstairs, then come downstairs half way, to find the lower plotter doing nowt. Select the same route, and you have to skip through all the waypoints you've already passed before it makes sense, I think.

Begs the question: can you run a different route on each, and if so, which one controls the autopilot?

<hr width=100% size=1>Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
 
Nearly all boats are set up so that you have to go to neutral to change stations. Easy enouygh with two helmsmen - the new helmsman lets the old helmsman know he's ready by tooting the horn. The Old helmsman then selects neutral, and the new guy powers back up. Only 1-2 seconds in neutral

Older boats (my brothers) have mechancially linked levers so when you moive the downstairs throttles the levers upstairs actually move.

According to the Volvo EVC user manual (dunno about EDC) the dealer can alter the software to allow on-the-go station changes, but they are not set this way from the factory. I have not got round to asking the Volvo service people to do this on our boat but it would be pretty easy, just a software thing

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<quote>

Begs the question: can you run a different route on each, and if so, which one controls the autopilot?

</quote>

with furuno, (i dont know raymarine, i have all furuno kit) there are plotters (and rader) that use a network system and (like mine) the cheap kit that does not - but can use NMEA (my plotter tells my radar things via NMEA) so i could connect to plotters together and use NMEA to transfer stuff - so about autopilot, i would think if you are using NMEA 1 plotter would be hard wired into the autopilot or if using a network system u could nominate a plotter for the pilot to listen 2 - so i suppose you could change at any point by changing the pilot to listen to the other plotter?

volvo warranty anyone?


<hr width=100% size=1>Thanks

Leyton

EXTAR Software - Software that works for you
Phone : 07803 139 736
 
I think Wiggo has a good point - if both plotters are set up to do the same route which will instruct the autopilot after the first bit of autopilot navigation?


Would be interesting esp if you had the same basic route but one route used a couple more intermediate waypoints.
 
thats 1 thing i would like is an autopilot!
(all my mates have 1 and i feel a bit 'behind in the technology curve' /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif)


it cannot be that hard, cos most people could not use 'em otherwise!



<hr width=100% size=1>Thanks

Leyton

EXTAR Software - Software that works for you
Phone : 07803 139 736
 
Re: Autopilot

SWMBO drives everywhere. Except when it's a long way in a straight line, and she could be getting on with some sunbathing, in which case she uses the autopilot (i.e. me). I'm so far behind the technology curve, I can't even see it on radar...

<hr width=100% size=1>Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
 
ah the correct method is as follows

1. Weather gets a bit bad, and crew down below using excuses of "checking" things. But don't come back up.

2. Not long after, depending on how much you have argued recently, you get ready to come down too.

3. Novices shout things like "i'm going to come down!" to which the crew say "Argh, did you wsay we're going down?". "No, i mean i'm going to swap over!" . "Argh, he said we're going to go over!" So often best not shout things, really. Just point into the wind, throttle to neutral, press button/whatever, and go down/up. Bit dodgy to program things so you can do this underway cos i mean, if on apilot and have a bit of a prob like falling down the stairs or whatever, then it's not in the least bit safe, really.

4. Then swap over. Then realise the charts/ drinks/ciggies or something is back at the other nav station, so have to nip back and get it, usually on autopilot, and so much for the blimmin safety things above, but anyway, ahem.

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Re: Autopilot

Come on a Sealine F37! it must have some uptodate on it!

(like mine! build 1974, but VHF, plotter and radar are all post 2002!)

<hr width=100% size=1>Thanks

Leyton

EXTAR Software - Software that works for you
Phone : 07803 139 736
 
Hmm. No easy answer. I usually slow down and head down wind. Other boats might like to head into wind. Then get the other crew donw stairs, whilst keeping things as steady as possible. Then just slip into neutral and go for it, Idealy making the downstairs wheel before going head over tit!! Hope this helps!

<hr width=100% size=1> No one can force me to come here. I'm a volunteer!!.

Haydn
 
My boat's got electronic Morse controls and according to the manual you can set it up to change helm stations 'on the fly'. If you want to go to the lower helm from the upper one, you go downstairs, move the throttles to the approx position of the upstairs throttles and hit the select button. I've never used them that way 'coz it sounds like a potential disaster with kids and other half-wits about. I think its safer to have to go to neutral first

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Re: Autopilot

Radar/plotter is all pukka and up to date, got a fluxgate/rate gyro for radar overlay, but no AP for some reason. But we don't have a dishwasher at home, either. I get all the crap jobs...

<hr width=100% size=1>Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
 
Got 2 Raymarine plotters on my boat, 1 up and 1 down and it is frustrating to set up a route on the upstairs plotter and not see it on the downstairs one and vica versa although I still get the waypoint info (ie distance + bearing) on the Autopilot screen
I think if you have a different route on each plotter the autopilot will follow the plotter that you last pressed Follow Route on

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no diswasher! aaaagghhh

well, my dishwasher has a fluxgate compass! even if my radar does not /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
(ok, maybe not)

go get a dishwasher, they are great! also acts as an extra cupboard as well /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif



total volvo warranty, and thread drift - an excellent day!

<hr width=100% size=1>Thanks

Leyton

EXTAR Software - Software that works for you
Phone : 07803 139 736
 
Have exactly the same situation on ours and did try to change over EDC's from Fly to Helm, in a very naughty sea (6's or 7's with massive seas) 4 or 5 miles off one of the heads from Weymouth to Poole last year. Simplest way to put it, I won't be doing it again!! We went head to wind / waves and to Neutral upstairs with someone waiting downstairs to take over and even with intercom on etc, by the time we actually were making way again we had experienced roll, slamming, turn etc. the like of which I don't want to repeat again. Not to mention having to try and turn her back onto something like our desired course. Plus trying to get down what are normally fabulous steps in the middle of all that was a nightmare!

On reflection I would have been better staying where I was and sticking it out, as SWMBO etc not a happy bunch after that. Am interested by JFM's comment about on the move change overs, can't recall reading about that in EDC handbook but will report back findings. Paul



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Had exactly the same nightmare going from Salcombe to Plymouth a few months ago. Wife and kids went down one at a time, but the final scramble for me was horrible. Then it started raining and all the windows steamed up. Thank God for modern electronics.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.magnumyacht.net>http://www.magnumyacht.net</A> - Princess P42
 
Ive got 2 Raymarines, sounds as if similar to yours, and whilst I can only select the routes plotted on each one, if I show route on that plotter and then select "Follow Route", the route definitely shows on the other. I think, that the "mirrored route" so to speak is possibly only in "dotted line" format, but deffo there and the waypoints update along the route and the data boxes update too.

Thinking about it, pretty useless if they don't as most people I imagine "Plot" in the comfort of the Helm position, then pilot upstairs, possibly. Is it just a setting change required or a network problem perhaps?? I find the instruction book so unfriendly I couldn't advise.

The one problem I can't seem to fathom is how to input waypoints by co ordinates, rather than placing the cursor at that point on the "chart" and "placing a waypoint"? There has to be a better way, any helpers??

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Which reminds me, with reference to an earlier thread, best thing I invested in when speccing this boat, Ebersbachers Demisters. Then subsequently, a Dehumidifier!! Paul

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