Changing anchors

Piers

Piers

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 Jun 2001
Messages
3,599
Location
Guernsey, Channel Islands
www.playdeau.com
Hmmm. Play d'eau is fitted with a plough and 90m 3/8ths galvanised chain. A new Fleming 55 is fitted with a 35Kg Stainless steel Ultra Anchor with stainless steel Ultra Swivel and 3/8ths stainless chain. Play d'eau is approx 30 tonnes.

Our plans are to spend time anchoring out much more this coming season. If I was to change, what would you suggest?
 
You will certainly meet, as every cruising person does, a variety of seabeds. Every NG anchor has one or more types of seabed where it is not completely effective, so the corollary is that to be equipped to deal with the widest possible range of seabeds, you need two types to overlap what in geological terms range from clay through to sand to cobbles.

Standard for squishy muds and silts and sands is something like the Fortress, where the flukes excel; for larger sediment sizes up to cobbles, and rocks, it's a question of what works best in your mind between any of the established other NG steelwork, where there may be some selection criteria based on the the configuration of your bow roller/winch/ chain stopper (see Magnum's thread on the topic).

Your chain at 3/8 inch seems a little on the small size for a big boat. If it is in good condition, perhaps not necessary to change, but a case could be made for moving to 12mm high grade galvanised, or stainless if you go for a stainless non-Fortress anchor. Again, there's an acceptable argument that chain mass makes a significant contribution to normal, prudent, anchoring.


Having two bower anchors may seem like a kerfuffle but it is a way of ensuring that

1 you have all anchoring conditions covered

2 you have another in case of a need for a Y anchoring

3 there is a spare in case you lose one, or have to buoy and ditch it

4 the aluminium one can be used as a picnic kedge on a short chain and warp
 
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Our boat weighs in slightly heavier at around 45 tonnes.
Last season we upgraded from 10mm (3/8) to 12mm (galvanised) chain whilst still keeping the old 40kg Delta anchor.
There was a significant improvement when we upgraded the chain.
At the beginning of this season, we upgraded the anchor to a 55Kg Delta.
This year, it has been a totally different experience.
We now have so much more confidence when we drop the anchor.
The old anchor took ages to set and never really worked.

IMO, both the old Delta and the old 10mm chain didn't work.

So, what would I do in your case.
The Ultra anchor is great but "overkill" IMO.
I would upgrade your chain and get the biggest modern style anchor that you can fit to your bow roller.
I regret that we didn't pay the extra for stainless chain - we have 150m in the locker and if we deploy a lot of chain, it can be a PIA to reload it without it piling up.
Another consideration - is the old windlass strong enough? - I upgraded our windlass motor and gearbox as well - with (of course) a new gypsy for the bigger chain.
So to recap - I would upgrade to 12mm and probably fit a big Rocna like the one we fitted earlier this year - the Ultra is nearly 3 times the price and is certainly not 3 times as good.

EDIT - some pics
Our 55kg Rocna on its bow roller.

DSC07314_Small_zps2oqoank2.jpg


And here it is "dug in" after a couple of nights - note:- no dragging.

RocnainSP_Small_zpsbswz34kv.jpg
 
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Piers said:
Hmmm. Play d'eau is fitted with a plough and 90m 3/8ths galvanised chain. A new Fleming 55 is fitted with a 35Kg Stainless steel Ultra Anchor with stainless steel Ultra Swivel and 3/8ths stainless chain. Play d'eau is approx 30 tonnes.

Our plans are to spend time anchoring out much more this coming season. If I was to change, what would you suggest?
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I think 3/8" is the right size for a 30T boat, no need to go to 12mm, and 90m is plenty for normal anchoring. You describe your current anchor as a "plough", but that term can cover a wide range of anchors. If it's a CQR or Bruce type, then these don't perform that well in most tests, so i'd consider changing it. If it's a Delta, then they usually do quite well, and personally i'd stick with it.

I have a 30T boat with 10mm (3/8") chain and a 40kg Delta anchor, and I've never dragged in hundreds of nights at anchor and winds up to 40 knots.

I'm not saying the Delta is the best, and if I was buying a new anchor now i'd probably buy a more modern design, like the Rocna, Ultra or Manson Supreme, but if you already have a Delta then it's a good anchor imho, and there's no need to upgrade it unless you find you have problems with it.
 
Piers said:
Our plans are to spend time anchoring out much more this coming season. If I was to change, what would you suggest?
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Depends on how well you want to sleep at night. I sleep well at night on my 63 footer because I've got a relatively big anchor in the shape of a 55kg Rocna and 100m of 12mm chain. I must admit that I'm somewhat surprised that Fleming see fit to install only a 35kg Ultra with 10mm chain on a new 55 footer bluewater cruising boat costing £2m although reputedly the Ultra is a good anchor. If I was you I would be thinking about a new generation anchor like an Ultra or Rocna or Spade at about 50kg with minimum 100m of 12mm chain. Obviously this will need a change of gypsy on the winch (assuming a 12mm gypsy is available) and you need to check that the dimensions of your bow roller will fit a larger anchor. That may mean offering up any new anchor you are considering in the bow roller before you buy. In my limited experience and FWIW the Rocna performs better than the equivalent traditional anchor like a Delta or Bruce
 
For consideration: -

http://www.knoxanchors.com

British design, genuine technical analysis with detailed measurements to establish optimum design, highest holding force of any anchor on the market to date, you can check this on the website.

No connection, except as a customer.
 
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Nick_H said:
there's no need to upgrade it unless you find you have problems with it.
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Agreed.
Piers in his OP seems to be asking just because he's planning to anchor more, not because he experienced troubles with his current setup.
As you say, he doesn't mention the exact type of anchor, nor its size.
But assuming it's good enough, the 90m 3/8 galvanized chain also is, imho.
If it ain't broke... :)
 
This has been a really helpful exercise. I have researched every element of your guidance and have come to following realisations.

1) A stainless anchor is more for its looks than its purpose and the additional cost is significant.
2) Stainless chain provides a significant benefit over galvanised in the way it stacks back in the locker. 'Like cream' is a common comment.

Play d'eau currently has a galvanised 35kg CQR plough with 90m of 10mm calibrated galvanised chain.

It appears the options are to change chain to stainless and to change the CQR to, e.g., a galvanised Rocna. However, not yet having had any anchoring issues, we will see how this season goes when we push our normal boundaries and see if we experience any 'surprises'. If so, the intel gathered here will dictate how we proceed into 2018.

Meanwhile, my thanks to Ultra and Jimmy Green, both of which replied to my emails over the weekend.

Finally, thanks to one and all. Really helpful. Much appreciated.
 
MapisM said:
If it ain't broke... :)
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Yeah but if you're unlucky you won't find its broke until your boat is sitting on the rocks. IMHO increasing your anchor and chain size is one of the cheapest and best upgrades you can do to your boat. For the cost of a cheap chartplotter (say £2k) you can widen your cruising horizons and never have to worry about finding an overnight marina berth again
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
For consideration: -

http://www.knoxanchors.com

British design, genuine technical analysis with detailed measurements to establish optimum design, highest holding force of any anchor on the market to date, you can check this on the website.

No connection, except as a customer.
Click to expand...


At present, Knox do not have an anchor big enough for the OP. Though, if they did, that would be equal top of my list, along with the Fortress.
 
Piers said:
FYI, the quotes I had for the stainless 35kg Ultra and stainless chain was circa £5k. A tad more than I expected.
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Stainless steel is always going to be far more pricey. Jimmy Green is pricing that anchor at £2114. I guess the rest of that £5k must be the chain:eek:. FWIW I bought my 55kg Rocna for around £1500 which is why I said £2k for an anchor and chain upgrade but of course that means galvanised. If you haven't had any chain tangles with your existing galvanised chain so far I see no reason to change for stainless chain unless you like the bling:)
 
Piers said:
FYI, the quotes I had for the stainless 35kg Ultra and stainless chain was circa £5k. A tad more than I expected.
Click to expand...

Bought our Rocna a year ago from Piplers.
A friend bought one as well so we had a discount for two.
I paid £1334 for my 55kg Rocna
I said to the guy at Piplers at the time - what if a friend comes along.
He "kind of" implied that he would also give a discount for another so it might be worth asking.
Carriage, of course is a direct cost of sale to him though.

Hope that helps.
 
Hurricane said:
Remember Caletta?
I consider my old set up was "broken".
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Oh yes, I sure do.
And in hindsight, yes, probably your previous set up wasn't man enough for the boat size, so well done for upgrading.
Though I suppose Piers didn't experience such problems so far (he would have probably mentioned, to start with).
Hence my comment... :)
 
Deleted User said:
Yeah but if you're unlucky you won't find its broke until your boat is sitting on the rocks. IMHO increasing your anchor and chain size is one of the cheapest and best upgrades you can do to your boat.
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Well, actually that's an extremely unrealistic scenario, in my experience.
I mean, as you know my anchors are just lumps of metal, that couldn't be more far from modern anchors design/shape. Rather heavy, yes, but also the boat is.
And in the few occasions when, while overnighting, the wind turned and strengthened out of the blue, pushing the boat towards the coastline and building up enough waves to make her pitch significantly, I would have moved somewhere else even if I would have been attached to the best and strongest anchor known to mankind.
Besides, the rock and roll woke me up well before the anchor began dragging.

I'm not saying that it never makes sense to fit something bigger, mind.
When the OEM setup is silly (and it's amazing how often that happens!), of course a better ground tackle is a great upgrade! :)
 
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