Centre v aft cockpit?

[Poignard]

This is the Rival 41C - 41' LOA centre cockpit. Peter Brett, the designer, managed to incorporate the centre cockpit into the line of the coach roof so that the cockpit sits low. The disadvantage is that the passageway from the saloon to the aft cabin is low. Having sailed a few modern hulls of the same length, aft cockpits, the twin or single aft cabins are easier to access but a bit more awkward to get into the bunk. I have two bunks in the aft cabin and heads, full standing headroom down the sides of the bunks unless the infill is inserted.

Untitled by Rival Sailor, on Flickr

Untitled by Rival Sailor, on Flickr

Unlike most centre-cockpit yachts, that doesn't look at all bad.

 

[Graham376]

How far is your cabin sole below the waterline of the boat?

Around 55cm =/- 2-3cm. Bit difficult to measure dry without removing seat cushions etc.

 

[geem]

So your cockpit sole is less than 700mm above the waterline of the boat. Pretty impressive. Ours is 950mm so probably in proportion as our boat is 44ft long

 

[Laser310]

One thing I did not see mentioned is steering: I have sailed a few center cockpit yachts, and none were enjoyable to helm.

I appreciate that for some this isn't important.., larger yachts tend to spend a lot of time on autopilot anyway...,

But, if one of the reasons you enjoy sailing is the feeling of taking the helm on a nice breezy day..., and reveling in the fingertip control as you steer perfectly to the flowing tell tales.., I would stay away from center cockpit yachts.

 

[Graham376]

So your cockpit sole is less than 700mm above the waterline of the boat. Pretty impressive. Ours is 950mm so probably in proportion as our boat is 44ft long

Sounds about right. Annoys me when people who've never sailed CC start wittering on about uncomfortable roll because they're built like a London bus. Although some are high, truth is far different for most.

 

[geem]

One thing I did not see mentioned is steering: I have sailed a few center cockpit yachts, and none were enjoyable to helm.

I appreciate that for some this isn't important.., larger yachts tend to spend a lot of time on autopilot anyway...,

But, if one of the reasons you enjoy sailing is the feeling of taking the helm on a nice breezy day..., and reveling in the fingertip control as you steer perfectly to the flowing tell tales.., I would stay away from center cockpit yachts.

I beg to differ. We have Whitlock shaft drive steering. Plenty of feel to the steering but you are correct, we rarely steer as the autopilot does most of the work on short trips and the Windpilot on longer passages. I would rather spend my time tweaking sails?

 

[Graham376]

One thing I did not see mentioned is steering: I have sailed a few center cockpit yachts, and none were enjoyable to helm.
I appreciate that for some this isn't important.., larger yachts tend to spend a lot of time on autopilot anyway...,

I think that was indicative of the boats you've sailed and the type of rudder and steering system, not the centre cockpit. Whether aft or CC, many boats such as ours have exactly the same pedestal and (in our case cable) steering system so no difference in feel. If the boats you've sailed had hydraulic steering, then they wouldn't have much feel.

In common with Geem, autopilot does most of the work but I prefer a glass in one hand and a book in the other to "tweaking" sails

 

[johnalison]

I think that was indicative of the boats you've sailed and the type of rudder and steering system, not the centre cockpit. Whether aft or CC, many boats such as ours have exactly the same pedestal and (in our case cable) steering system so no difference in feel. If the boats you've sailed had hydraulic steering, then they wouldn't have much feel.

In common with Geem, autopilot does most of the work but I prefer a glass in one hand and a book in the other to "tweaking" sails

I sailed with a friend whose boat had hydraulic steering in a centre cockpit. I helmed upwind for a few hours and it was strangely enjoyable, a bit like playing a video game with a time delay.

I don't think that anyone has said that all CC boats are too high and roll, but some certainly do, and I expect that some aft-cockpit ones also, but fewer.

 

[geem]

I think it comes back generally to small CC boats often works so well. Once you get to circa 45ft there is nothing to choose between them. Its just your preference as to where you want the cockpit

 

[Laser310]

I think that was indicative of the boats you've sailed and the type of rudder and steering system, not the centre cockpit.

I think there is truth to this.., but i still think that with respect to the joy of helming, the aft cockpit is better. The helmsman's position on an aft cockpit - sitting or standing outboard with a clear view of the sails and the water gives a better experience, and, i think, yields better performance.

the boats i sailed were Oysters - up to a 62.5. Mostly, centre cockpit yachts are not high-performance yachts.., and it could be that the if one held constant the high displacement, the hull shape, the keel and the rudders.., simply changing to an aft helm would not make a big difference

 

[oldmanofthehills]

So your cockpit sole is less than 700mm above the waterline of the boat. Pretty impressive. Ours is 950mm so probably in proportion as our boat is 44ft long

That made me laugh. Our Pentlands cockpit drain is only about 300mm above waterline by gueswork, the trouble is our very non-centre-cockpit LM where the cockpit sole is only 50mm above waterline and water come up the drains if you have dinner party in cockpit. I wish they had made it higher !

 

[Daydream believer]

I've just done a quick measure, cockpit floor is 123cm higher than cabin sole boards. I bet that's not much different in height to a modern aft cockpit boat with twin cabins/berths under cockpit.

What really matters is height of cockpit sole above waterline. Distance above cabin sole is really a feature of keel form & hull shape.

Does a centre cockpit give one a crick in the neck when trying to view the mainsail & mast head windex ?

 

[geem]

That made me laugh. Our Pentlands cockpit drain is only about 300mm above waterline by gueswork, the trouble is our very non-centre-cockpit LM where the cockpit sole is only 50mm above waterline and water come up the drains if you have dinner party in cockpit. I wish they had made it higher !

But a Pentland is small boat. They have very little freeboard. Our topsides are 4’7” high. Its a completely different type of boat. The RM has a very exposed transom, something I would not feel uncomfortable with for the sailing we do. Our dogs would slide out the back in bumpy weather?

 

[Laminar Flow]

There was a time when CC was synonymous with offshore cruising ability. Every other boat test was on about the "security" of the CC. As a result there was a plethora of CC designs, even, ridiculously, on boats as small as 20' or less. Often this was combined with a ketch rig, where the mizzen was mostly in the way, and moving the cockpit forward was really the only workable solution and made room for a "real aft cabin or, more ludicrously, a "great cabin a la Spanish galleon with ginger bread windows on the transom .
As a pubescent teenager, I well remember the appeal of the "huge double bunk" as advertised for the CC aft cabin of the old Morgan Out Islands. The picture showed a young woman in a bikini draped across it and reading a sailing mag, which should been my first clue to the improbability of the shot. I also remember my disappointment when I actually got to see one (a Morgan, not the young lady) years later.

 

[Kelpie]

But a Pentland is small boat. They have very little freeboard. Our topsides are 4’7” high. Its a completely different type of boat. The RM has a very exposed transom, something I would not feel uncomfortable with for the sailing we do. Our dogs would slide out the back in bumpy weather?

RM and LM are pretty different types of boat. ..

 

[stranded]

Can’t say we have had any problem with stern to mooring or accessing the dinghy. And I have not found anywhere on an aft cockpit that has a nicer place to lounge than those big beanbags. I do think it’s about the particular boat - that sugar scoop takes a significant chunk out of the accommodation below but is superb for lounging, fishing, mooring, etc. Horses for courses though - I too don’t like the wedding cake look.

 

[Daydream believer]

dogs would slide out the back in bumpy weather?

Another + for aft cockpit then

 

[Aardee]

A lot depend on what demands "sailing with grandchildren" places on the boat and its accommodation. If you need a private space to escape to then CC may be the better option. If you need the maximum number of beds per foot then I'd say an aft cockpit, twin aft cabin boat may be better suited.

 

[Graham376]

Does a centre cockpit give one a crick in the neck when trying to view the mainsail & mast head windex ?

Bimini spoils the view so use the panel wind display.

 

[geem]

I dont think you can over simplify the comparison between AC and CC boats. You have to look at the whole picture. A light AC boat with a very low ballast ratio would benefit from a low cockpit floor as it is likely to be a lively boat in a bumpy sea where as a heavier CC boat with a higher cockpit floor and a high ballast ratio would have a slower motion and the higher cockpit floor then may not be an issue. Just as a CC boat light displacement and minimal ballast ratio with a high cockpit floor could be miserable in a bumpy sea. A think the bigger the boat gets the less of an issue it becomes.